Paul Vunak

[Domstarr]

Dear JKD silat

With your background, you'll find Paul's "stuff" effective and not difficult to apply. Paying him in two sessions is a good idea. I actually sent him a deposit ( $500-) before I went to reserve the two days and the other half ( $500-) at the end of the two days. I trusted that he would make up the time he owed me (big mistake) so paid him the second half when I left. It would be kind of awkward to say "I'm not giving you the rest of your money until you give me the rest of the time. He did give me the certificate because I learned all of the material in a short period of time. Let me know when you go.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Originally posted by Domstarr
Hey, JKD Silat,

I'm curious what martial arts you've done. I would also like to know if you go train with Paul how you like it.
and RYU, I know you said sometimes you have to be "friends" with him to get to him, however, I'm a business man and I feel that when you pay someone for a service you should get what you paid for. I don't like people lying to me like Vunak has on a few occasions. There is also no excuse for someone to not pick up a telephone and call even if it's to say they'll be too busy for a month or so. You agree?

Yeah, I do agree! Which is why I'm kind of shocked that you went through this experience with him.
Paul has said publically that he's not the best business man in the world, but like you said if you're paying for a service you deserve that service, or at least ample warning for cancellation, etc.
So I dunno. I will say that there ARE some issues with Paul that I have myself, but out of respect, I don't discuss them on public internet. I don't feel comfortable doing that.

I am sorry you had such a negative experience though. The times I've stayed and trained with Paul were always memorable.

But in this business, you've got to stay professional. So you're absolutely entitled to feel the way you feel about it.
I'm sure I would too if it happened to me.

Ryu

[Domstarr]

Ryu,

I respect where you're coming from. It is comforting to know that you've had "issues" with Paul yourself. When you said that the "times you've stayed" and trained were memorable, tells me that you didn't always stay to train as planned. I also agree that I learned a lot and the times were memorable when I trained.
I know you say you did not feel comfortable airing your issues on the internet out of respect. I guess the way to try to explain my feelings are, I lost the respect for one. Also, I own a business where if I fire someone for being rude to customers, or being late all the time, or dishonesty, and someone else is considering hiring that person, do I warn them so they don't have the same problem as me, or not say anything so as not to "badmouth" that person. It's a tough call. Nice sharing with you.

[Thai Bri]

I find the whole idea of paying so much money for private lessons bizzarre. I think he is using his big name to rip people off, big time. And the fact that certificates and instructorships can follow these few expensive hours is far from impressive.

And now, after all that, it turns out that he isn't even reliable and efficient, except when the taking the cash........

All round a poor show.

[Domstarr]

Thai Bri,

It's interesting what you said and I actually agree with you. Even though I got a "certificate" from Paul after only two days, I felt like he gives it to make people feel like they got their money's worth. On the other hand, I did honestly learn the material well enough to teach it. But was it worth the price?
When I was getting my black belts in Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do, I learned from one of these masters who had his 9th. dan in one and 8th dan in the other. (As well as his 5th. in judo and a master with numerous weapons) I only paid him $50- an hour for private lessons and I still think he could kick the shit out of Paul.
One good point is, and I see this in my business, when you offer something unique and different that everyone else doesn't offer, you can charge more for your product. There are dozens of Korean martial art schools in every city with masters who have been doing it for forty years. There are not as many places to learn destructions, straight blasting, trapping, etc. Although, now that I've written off Vunak as a flake, I've been looking, and there are people out there that I can train with.

[Thai Bri]

Vunak has often proven to have "doubtful" character. Your better off without him.

[Kali]

Angry

Have any of you tried having a word with Dan Inosanto, I mean after all he and Bruce developed the concept of JKD and I think that he may be a little concerned that he is conducting his teachings in this manner. Not only that to be giving certificates out willy-nilly just makes a mockery of what Bruce, Dan and all other JKD instructors out there have worked so hard to achieve for over the past years. As a JKD practitioner this makes me very angry indeed. And I for one would not pay for his tuition if this is his attitude. I mean not only is he there to train you but he is a role model so to speak and if this is the way he conducts him self then well I’m sorry I don't want to meet him

[Domstarr]

Kali,

Speaking as someone who's had negative experiences with Paul first hand, I agree with you 100%. I believe (just a guess) that Dan would say he has no control over what Paul does and would be too ethical to publicly "denounce" what Paul does. That however, is just a guess.

[roodypoody]

paul vunak

i had the EXACT problems.. he even wanted to know if i had a credit card so we could rent a video camera and when i didn't he had me buy a disposable camera . but we turned out to be good friends but i call him and he plays me off

[Domstarr]

Roodypoody,

Interesting to see that a few other people have had the same problem. He acts as though you are friends while you're with him, but when it comes time to take care of business, he's a flake.

[HERQ454]

I myself was considering getting in contact and going to do his course,from Australia.Bad idea?

[Thai Bri]

Duuuurrrrrrr........

No! Its a great idea! That way you can waste all your travelling money as well as the training money.

Duuuurrrrrrr

[Domstarr]

HerQ,

You could buy your plane fare, make hotel reservations and fly all the way here. Then you can go to Paul's house and if he wasn't too wasted the night before, you could start training. There will be no video as promised because, as a few of us told you he doesn't even have a video recorder. Then his girlfriend might call and he will cancel your training for the day so you could sight see around the area for the rest of the day. I culd thing of a lot better ways to waste a few thousand dollars.

[HERQ454]

My previous question was more a statement of "lucky didn't fall for that one".At least with these forums you can find out some info about "personalities" in the martial arts.

[roz]

domstarr were you not posting good posts on vu with another thread in august? how old are you to where you would prepay someone, or to where you would probaly do better to take this subject to small claims court? or it does more justice to post this on burtons thread. as for talking about his house, that is mere chid play. i wonder if you make fun of peoples old cars going down the highway? or old people in general. who is to say all you claim is even true? or even that you were doing this for another club vs. pfs. i am a pfs'r and what your stating just does not feel authentic. sorry if i'm wrong