Are there any JKD guys

[jules]

Why can't JKD guys just hold back some of the moves? Combat Sombo guys can do it, MT guys can do it, Krav Maga guys can do it so why can't JKD guys do it?

[doubleouch]

sorry Jose, that's Jun Fan kung fu not JKD. Jun Fan does have certain stances, kicks terminology etc. I suscribe to the JKD philosophy not the art of JUN FAN. Jun Fan kung fu is outdated. If it wasn't it would be used in NHB. Go check out straightblastgym.com Matt sums it up better than I can.

[lssanjose]

uh... i'm pretty sure that Ted wong doesn't call what he does Jun Fan Kung Fu. More so i'm really sure he calls what he does Jeet Kune Do. Jun fan gung fu is different from JKD. There are many others that attest to this. IF you look at it from other angles aside from the inosanto angle you'd see there's a different side to JkD that meets the eye.

[doubleouch]

You are right Jules. that's what I always wondered. If the so called JKD guys are so effective then surely they can fight effectively with ring techniques. Timing, distance, and energy should be able to be applied to ring techniques just as well as "deadly techniques".

[lssanjose]

there are some JKD guys that do get involved in ring fights. Maybe not UFC or the big time televised ones. I fight in a ring type environment. but more of a boxing type. 3 minute rounds and what not. and it's in my living room. Yes i know how to set "boundaries"

[jules]

I fight in a ring type environment. but more of a boxing type. 3 minute rounds and what not. and it's in my living room.

and what does this have to do with the original question about JKD guys in big MA tournaments?

[lssanjose]

nothing.. I was just trying to add some humor to it. I guess i failed oh well.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The "JKD" people that have been successful in MMA have been the JKD concepts guys. They're too busy trying to train athletically and against resisting opponents to worry about whether or not they "intercepted" anyone.

JKD is a philosophy of getting the job done. If it works you use it, if it doesn't work you get rid of it. JKD fits into just about anything. It's not just the "stop fist" style.

Within the rules of MMA, the specific training and blend of arts they do is the "JKD" of competition. It works, and it works well.

If your "intercepting" style can't stop a boxer from taking your head off or a wrestler from double legging you to the floor, it's not worth anything.

There's been lots of JKD people in competition. Eric Paulson is among the most famous and successful from Dan's camp. There might be "structural" aspects to JKD that he adhered too, but if those caused him trouble in the ring he threw them out.

Liberate yourself from classical Jeet Kune Do...

Ryu

[Pencode]

What happened to no limit as limitation?

It is not that JKD guys don't want to fight in the ring. It is because a true JKD practioner trains a certain way. Notice I said true practioner. Everything is an automatic reaction. If a JKD guy starts training with rules and restrictions, that defeats the whole purpose of his training and the concept of no limitation as limitation. Many holds and strikes would of course be illegal in the ring, but they are a trained response to a certain stimuli. Let me give you some examples of what I am talking about.

You can't go around breaking people's thumbs in the ring, but it is a simple move to control an opponent. If someone's pushing your head down about to knee or applying a guillotine, my response is automatically to the groin area...simple, immediate, EFFECTIVE. Eye gouging, throat ripping, striking the base of the skull, striking the tailbone or groin, pulling the hair, ears, nostrils, pinching the armpits, striking nerve centers, crushing the larynx, joint locking, biting for release, illegal or barred wrestling holds...on and on. Guess what? Sounds like SELF DEFENSE to me doesn't it. Take away everything that is simple and direct and you have nothing left but sport fighting. JKD was and is about self defense...not sport. Bruce thought that the other arts were weakend because of SPORT applications. That they had forgotten the true essense of martial art for self defense.

For all the die hard BJJ fans out there. Note that JKD was already there before. The concept of ranges of combat. Kicking, punching, trapping(knees and elbows too) AND grappling ranges and learning how to fit into each one..flow into each one. Remember his TAO is an unfinished work that was suppose to span seven volumes but only filled one. Most likely, one volume would have been dedicated to grappling.

If you ask a JKD guy to enter the ring, it goes against the very concepts of simplicity, anything that scores, not limiting ones self to rules or systems. You wouldn't ask a BJJ guy to stop using the concepts his art is based on, so why would you ask a JKD guy to do the same thing? Just think of JKD as BJJ one step further. Somewhat similar but with self defense in mind. I love BJJ and I also love boxing. However, I accept that these are for sport and entertainment and do not confuse them with self defense(although in certain instances they can be useful for defense). I also do not insult other arts or their founders because no one art is infallible or perfect.

[jules]

What you have said about JKD applies to Combat Sombo and Krav Maga and those styles compete. Those styles were there to destory people and yet they can still compete. You say JKD is for "real life"? Heck what's more "real life" than Krav Maga which was tested the wars of Israel?

[sercuerdas]

jules,

where do the krav maga guys compete?

[sercuerdas]

i still believe it comes down to training time. (example) take a kick boxer who trains in jab, cross, hook, uppercut, frontkick, round kick,etc... , then take a jkd guy who trains the before mentioned and trapping, chi sao, grappling , kali, silat, etc...
put those two in a ring in a k-1 fight, and the kick boxer should be more skilled with the weapons of that fight because of the nature of there training focus. one trains specifically for that event , and the divides his time over more areas of training.
it seems like it's just another which is better arguemnt, which will never be resoulved.

[jules]

Originally posted by sercuerdas
jules,

where do the krav maga guys compete?

Bas Rutten and Oleg Taktarov

[jules]

put those two in a ring in a k-1 fight, and the kick boxer should be more skilled with the weapons of that fight because of the nature of there training focus. one trains specifically for that event , and the divides his time over more areas of training.

What about PRIDE, what about KOTC, what about UFC?

[Pencode]

Yeah Krav Maga is pretty straightforward. It teaches a lot of knife, gun and weapon use and disarmament. Strictly combat based. Something I can appreciate. But take that stuff away and apply rules and restrictions and it is not Krav anymore...just another sport art. That is my point. Not to dilute the art the way it should be with non essentials.