JKD technique discussion

[akja]

I don't come in hear much because there is no technical discussions. Zero. I hear a whole lot of whining pro and con about Bruce Lee. Threads started about not worshiping Bruce etc. etc., yet half of the threads started have Bruce Lees name in them.

Lets cut the crap and talk technique! We can start in any range or all ranges, that is if anyone in here really is a JKD fighter and has anything worth sharing.

[akja]

We can start with a range I like quite a bit, the Clinch. I know I may get hit and I'm willing to take a hit in order to fight my fight.

Who has good techniques or strategies for the clinch?

[JKDfreak]

I agree with you akja,there is so much talk about Bruce Lee this or Bruce Lee that.Let him rest in peace.OK,he was a great Martial artist,so can we if we stop worrying about the past and looking toward the future!!!
OK,this might not be a discussion for newbies who want to learn JKD through forums,vids,books etc.... cuz that's not hwo you teach it.

Firstly,the most important thing to say is that the clinch just happen.If you reach for it,if your intention is to get into the clinch you'll get hit.80% of the fights I've seen end up grappling,clinching or on the ground;It's a natural response to a threat,you take a hold of your opponent,because you feel more comfortable.
You can grab at the base of the skull (so much argues about this) or in the middle of the head or the neck itself but i like the base of the skull.Another application is to grab both arms at the elbows so you can control him better and go for a throw.
A dirty trick can be to elbow the face while reaching for the base of the skull!!!
From here do whatever you want but stick to your opponent.
That's what comes to my mind for the moment.See what others think.

[Nutz]

I like the clinch or trapping range best. I'm short (5'5") and can slip around fairly easily against larger opponents, which is the majority of the population in my case. If you look at some of the old Larry Harsell tapes from the mid-late 80's you'll see the sort of grappling that suites my way of doing things. I also like the Vunak method of HKE. As I said before, my height limits my striking ability to the head, but with a few shots to the lower lines I can get that head. From there I just go nuts with a few elbows and lock them up for a takedown.

By the way, I don't believe in such a thing as "dirty" fighting. You're in a fight to take out your opponent, not make friends with him. That means winning at any cost. Pinching, biting, gouging the eyes, etc are all fair play in my book.

[Skull X22]

Originally posted by Nutz
I'm short (5'5")

I know how you feel. But when you walk out you feel proud
to sweeped down a bunch of yunk lifters .

One of my favorite is all the options you have after the "Jerking Hand".
You can finish him with some punches, trapps or locks.
But what I like the most is counter-grapples. Especailly when
it's about Counter-grappeling for a roundhouse kick.

[akja]

I want the clinch range. I know and accept that I may get hit so I need to be closse enough to strike, grab, push or whatever I flow to at that time.

If I get in trouble, like being overpowered to the ground then I'll fall into a position that I'm comfortable with. So I'm comfortable in close.

If I'm fighting a "wrestler", I'm going to make him stand up and he's a "boxer" then I'm gooing to slam him and issue the pain.

Actually my Jun Fan does go well with BJJ.

[JKDfreak]

Yeah, Muay Thai works well with judo and wrestling.
When i was talking about dirty tricks,it was in a ring.It's hard for the referee to see this elbow,so you can use this to win.You're also allowed to elbow the knee while holding the kicking leg of your opponent!!!!
Of course a nasty Bil gee before getting in the clinch is one of the best thing to do along with an elbow to the shoulder or chin of course!!!!!

[akja]

How do you guys defend against someone "closing the gap" from the outside to the inside?

[yenhoi]

...but techniques do not exist.

How do you guys defend against someone "closing the gap" from the outside to the inside?

From the outside of the arms to inside the arms? I assume.

Depends. Depends on what hes using to close the gap, once there is contact, go with the energy being offered, with the goal of eating up more space between me and him, attacking his structure, and eventually knocking him down somehow, wether its some sort of throw or some sort of takedown.

Elbows. As in keeping mine in, attempting to control his, and hitting and smashing things with them. Knees too, but not so much.

As far as the "how" goes: movement - footwork - mobility; sensitivity; and offense (attacking his structure.)

How do you tain your kungfu (skills) in the clinch range? What sorts of drills etc?

[akja]

Re: ...but techniques do not exist.

Originally posted by yenhoi
How do you guys defend against someone "closing the gap" from the outside to the inside?

From the outside of the arms to inside the arms? I assume.

Depends. Depends on what hes using to close the gap, once there is contact, go with the energy being offered, with the goal of eating up more space between me and him, attacking his structure, and eventually knocking him down somehow, wether its some sort of throw or some sort of takedown.

Elbows. As in keeping mine in, attempting to control his, and hitting and smashing things with them. Knees too, but not so much.

As far as the "how" goes: movement - footwork - mobility; sensitivity; and offense (attacking his structure.)

How do you tain your kungfu (skills) in the clinch range? What sorts of drills etc?

I meant someone in the outside range (out of reach) closing the gap to the clinch range.

i'm going to train right now, I'll answer how I train later tonite.

[JKDilla]

If he's out of range and just charging in looking for a clinch, simply zone off slightly and fire away.

If someone is dumb enough to charge from long range he should be eating punches on the way in, especially if he is reaching for a clinch.

If you can, jam his forward momentum with hands/forearms; zone off his direct path while directing him in other direction with your hands/forearms; fire off strikes.
Also, if you can get a eye jab/gouge/rake in there while you jam him that would be great.

As I said, a fool would outright try to close distance without coming in behind strikes.

[akja]

Depending on how they are "closing the distance" I too like to jam with forearms or like. If they are striking, I intercept or use footwork and change my position.

If I change my position, I'm making him adjust to me. Either his pace will slow up or he'll get a bit sloppy or wild.

I like to go through my opponent. That is where the forearms com in. Not charging in. In "Intercepting to Trapping" ranges I tend to crowd. My energy is going forward.

I teach my students during sensitivity drills to "change up" by pushing through their opponent (with the forearms in front horizontal and one arm over the other - like a boxers cover up). It goes well with the rest of our training. Its another "controlling" position.

Anyway I teach 5 ranges. The outside range / clinch range / and ground grappling ranges are the 3 primary ranges with 2 sub-ranges Intercepting / trapping range which is between the outside range and clinch range and the clinch to grappling range which is in between the clinch and ground grappling ranges.

So here are they are; 1)outside 2)intercepting/trapping 3)clinch 4)clinch to grappling 5)ground grappling.

I have a theory that people spend to much time working in either the "boxing or wrestling ranges." So 1 of my drill that I work heavily is starting in the clinch, almost like Judos Randori.

A fight can go in any direction at any time and some people I know say things like well if I end up on the ground I'll deal with it.

I teach to fight going forward, backward and falling down. In theory just about any techniques that we know can be used in any range. We just need to make the "connection," then make the "translation."

There are many people that do this but I just blended what I've learned in Jun Fan with what I've learned in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and what I already knew from over the years.

Now I'm adding Traditional Ju Jitsu. It gives my grappling a new flavor. My reasoning is I'm training/teaching what I feel all the elements of a fight can/will be.

[JKDfreak]

One of the nastiest thing you can do if a fool charges at you with arms extended, just throw a rear leg thai round kick to the belly or legs.The sidestep needed for launching the kick will be enough to clearn the path,you can exagerate it though.Your opponent will be out of breath.
Or you can just jeet tek and follow with th classical straightblast;Just think forward motion and thrust into your opponent but without unbalancing yourself.
That is my way of fighting.The best example is a french thai boxer who fight now i full contact.He won all his fight.If you look at him,you'll see a bull charging.he's constantly moving forward,never retreating and it works!!!! Or picture yourself Mark Hunt from the K-1,he does the same,but more subtle.
Concerning the range,I don't really use this methodology,just Long,medium,close range. It is silly to say punching range,because in the punching range you can kick,grab your opponent,intercept etc...
Personally I don't use trapping much.If it is really needed I know I can rely on this to clear the path,but I prefer to keep it simple,I have a heavy Thai Boxing influence.

What basic kicks do you use????
I use:

1) Push kick and front kick with variations
2)Thai round kick, JKD hook kick
3)side kick but not so often.

[akja]

Originally posted by JKDfreak
One of the nastiest thing you can do if a fool charges at you with arms extended, just throw a rear leg thai round kick to the belly or legs.The sidestep needed for launching the kick will be enough to clearn the path,you can exagerate it though.Your opponent will be out of breath.
Or you can just jeet tek and follow with th classical straightblast;Just think forward motion and thrust into your opponent but without unbalancing yourself.
That is my way of fighting.The best example is a french thai boxer who fight now i full contact.He won all his fight.If you look at him,you'll see a bull charging.he's constantly moving forward,never retreating and it works!!!! Or picture yourself Mark Hunt from the K-1,he does the same,but more subtle.
Concerning the range,I don't really use this methodology,just Long,medium,close range. It is silly to say punching range,because in the punching range you can kick,grab your opponent,intercept etc...
Personally I don't use trapping much.If it is really needed I know I can rely on this to clear the path,but I prefer to keep it simple,I have a heavy Thai Boxing influence.

What basic kicks do you use????
I use:

1) Push kick and front kick with variations
2)Thai round kick, JKD hook kick
3)side kick but not so often.

I use your techniques too. Most definately, being able to change within the styles is my edge.

I use trapping to develop sensitivity in my students. It has enhanced my BJJ bigtime. I naturally don't allow my BJJ opponents to control my arms and my sensitivity transferred throughout my whole body after "rolling" for a few years.

I teach about 65-70% stand up and 30-35% groundwork. Ater about a year when my students stand up starts to take off, they realize that they're not bad grapplers. And they only get better.

[NWPTrainer]

INteresting takes on the clinch guys. I train predominantly to fight in the clinch, because I feel it is the safest platform from which to attack at close range, and the facts say most street assaults will happen here. IN the clinch, not only can I tie up his weapons, reducing his ability to strike and attack effectively, if I can attain a dominant body position (think collar and elbow, over-under, or head control), I can still attack with relatively unimpeded use of my weapons. This can range from striking weapons to gross motor skill restraints to takedowns and throws. In a DBP in the clinch, I can access my edged weapon, OC spray, or my sidearm more effectively as well. If I have tied the guy up in a clinch, and have hit him a couple times, I can use the DBP to create space, or I can use the leverage provided to control his mobility in order to clear one side of my body to access the weapons.

As for closing to the clinch...I think you guys are overestimating the value of some of the countertechniques. I started out as a purely free-movement, stand up fighter. Boxing and MT. In the service, I used to spar and train against HS and collegiate wreslters. At 6'1" 200 pounds, I'm not a small guy, but most of the techniqes you have mentioned are not extremely effetive as methods to stop a determined rush to the clinch.
I am not gonna jsut duck my head and charge in. I'm gonna be juking and jiving as I caome in, and I'm gonna be attacking you and your limbs as I close. I don;t mean some fancy gunting crap, I mean, you throw a punch, I am gonna be hacking the crap outa those arms as I close with you. Even if you do manage to get a shot to actually connect, the chances are pretty good, that ost of the energy of the blow is gonna be shed due to my movement.

I am NOT a particularly great fighter. Good? Yes. Expereinced? Yes. Great? No. But I can still get inside, even against technically better fighters. Look at the dynamics of even boxing....Two guys are in the ring. The better boxer starts winning. What does the loser (the worse boxer!) do? He closes and clinches.

I teach even small women students to seek the clinch. Get inside, wherre she can latch on to the larger assailant and use her bodyweight as a weapon, as well as her strikes. BUt, then, I'm more interested in hurting the bad guy and putting him down NOW than I am in the back and forth sporting aspects.
Just some thoughts.

RLTW