Wong Jak Man kicked Brue's ass.

[BeingAtOne]

Ok i dont want to sound to criticle but i think this forum is done you guys just keep on Hashing up the same arguments and Obvioulsy no one Is going to change the other persons mind. Lets just let everyone have there own opinion on this and lets start talking about things more important things that are actually usefull. Its just my opinion but this forum is dead so please move on thanks.

[Norm Lee]

Yeah I think you're right 'Beingatone', I'd maintain Wong turned his back after an onslaught and took the punches on the back of his head, Bruce had swollen hands it makes total sense to me.
In that case a 3 minute fight would be fine, Wong blocked most of the blows but they just kept coming in the end he'd have to turn in desperation and Bruce would have burnt himself out but the result stands.
Next thing for me is to find out more about Wong ie: what was his style? how long had he been studying? who was his teacher? did he ever do anything afterwards worth any merit?

[m.artist]

Just because Lee trained to win doesn't mean he did.


The same principle could be applied to anything, for example, just because I try to type well doesn't mean I do.

the fact is that the article says that Wong only had 1 visible mark on his face and that Lee had none, I was simply giving theories on how that could be and also arguing with Georgie about previously established facts.

Damn, just when I thought this convo was coming to a close, it start right back up...

Ok then. Basically what it comes down to is "he said, she said" And unfortunately for Wong, we have more people saying that Bruce won, and won "by a lot" Wong is the only one who thinks it was a tie. As Jon Bon Jovi would put it "100,000 people can't be wrong"

[MatthewAlphonso]

100,000 people can be wrong. Look how many people voted for Bush.

But seriously now, people side with Lee because he is more popular, just as long ago people sided with Aristotle on the idea of atoms, he said that atoms do make up everything but that they remain permanently fixed. The Greeks sided with him simply because he wa smore popular.

[Norm Lee]

Yeah but Aristotle was right.
I still go with what I said earlier and I guess we won't be changng our minds anytime soon.

[MatthewAlphonso]

I can only hope you're joking, atoms are in constant motion.

but yeah *skips forward to next week* 'Random New Guy' says, "Ne1 no nething about the L33 and W0ng fight?"

[Norm Lee]

Ok permanently fixed in constant motion.
Which is a weak link to Bruce Lee's approach to martial arts keep on refining your art and I suppose this fight was a very important point in his approach so even though we wil never know the true out come we know it's profound effect.

[m.artist]

100,000 people can be wrong. Look how many people voted for Bush.

But seriously now, people side with Lee because he is more popular, just as long ago people sided with Aristotle on the idea of atoms, he said that atoms do make up everything but that they remain permanently fixed. The Greeks sided with him simply because he wa smore popular.

I wasn't wrong, and i voted bush
why?
because that was the right choice

[BeingAtOne]

Alright this Forum Is dead you know why cause people are making political statments come guys lets get on to better things thanks.

[bodhisattva]

I know what you're saying but if it was that easy boxers would stand with their forearms in permanent contact trying to out sense their opponent. Boxers are super exponents at bobbing and weaving, ducking and slipping punches too even with high guards but they always get hit it's unavoidable when someone is throwing punches in a full blown attack. To leave you face unprotected and to watch punches coming at you expecting to avoid them all is a bit of a crazy way to defend yourself especially when the opponent has super fast hand speed!
I know in a perfect world you would train to excellence and see the moves and avoid them but no on is perfect and real fights tend to be sloppy unlike in the movies.

Hm. Some of this is true. Some of this isn't.

A) Boxers don't "always get hit". Boxers get hit some, and they dodge some. They tend to do extremely well when avoiding punches.

B) It makes perfect sense to leave your face unprotected and stare straight into the punches, ESPECIALLY if the guy has fast hands. Just because your arms aren't up, doesn't mean your face is unprotected. Putting your arms up may SEEM like you are protected, but the boxer will work you until you create an opening. Lots of boxers protected there faces just fine without ever lifting their arms. Some of the greatest even fought with their lead arm down by their stomach. There are many answers to the problem of being punched, and having your arms in a guard position is only one of them - and the weakest of them all. It is only the very beginner that is told to never drop his guard..and for him, it's good advice.

Real fights do tend to be sloppy.

--

As far as the question of Bruce Lee.. He's dead. He was probably a fun guy to know. He probably fought well. He probably won some fights. He probably lost some fights. He probably had a lot of fights we'll never hear about. He may have never really fought. We can't know. We can just read things, and talk to people who knew him.. Most of those people can't remember where they were last Thursday, or what they had for dinner yesterday, or who their high school algebra teacher was.. And all of that information relates DIRECTLY TO THEM. So what are the odds they might forget some details about the big fight SOMEONE ELSE had DECADES ago?

It is really immaterial. If your game is in order, then you got game. If it isn't, you don't. Bruce Lee, some fight, and 30 years ago has little to do with any of it.

Of course, it is a fun conversation. I've enjoyed reading it. I just wanted to mention the obvious.

[Tom Yum]

Lots of boxers protected there faces just fine without ever lifting their arms. Some of the greatest even fought with their lead arm down by their stomach. There are many answers to the problem of being punched, and having your arms in a guard position is only one of them - and the weakest of them all. It is only the very beginner that is told to never drop his guard..and for him, it's good advice.

Real fights do tend to be sloppy.

Hey man, I'm not an impressive fighter, but I'm also not a beginner.

I sparred 3 rounds against a light-heavy weight amateur with a 7-0 record. He has about 3 more years experience than I, but still kept his hands high and tight.

I think the front hand down thing is only for guys who are very experienced, usually professional and have the speed and timing to back it up.

[MatthewAlphonso]

As far as the question of Bruce Lee.. He's dead. He was probably a fun guy to know. He probably fought well. He probably won some fights. He probably lost some fights. He probably had a lot of fights we'll never hear about. He may have never really fought. We can't know. We can just read things, and talk to people who knew him.. Most of those people can't remember where they were last Thursday, or what they had for dinner yesterday, or who their high school algebra teacher was.. And all of that information relates DIRECTLY TO THEM. So what are the odds they might forget some details about the big fight SOMEONE ELSE had DECADES ago?

This is still being discussed for the same reason that people still discuss the Battle at Thermopoli, or even why they debate and make movies about Alexander the Great (Bisexuality and all), or hell, why they recreate the civil war.

It's because people 1)find it interesting or 2) Think of it as an important event. unfortunatley with topics like this you also get a 3rd reason: Think that Bruce Lee was the Martial Arts Messiah, the lord and savior come packed into a short Chinese guys body. I think that Lee was a good fighter, a decent actor (god, I'm gonna get flamed for both of those "He was the best fighter/actor ever blah blah blah"). But I also think that he took himself too seriously and used Wong's agreement not to talk about the fight to his advantage. Did this make him a bad person? I don't think so, I think it made him a shrewd businessman.

[holyman]

This is rubbish. Bruce is the greattest fighter that as ever lived he could punch 3 times before u blinked.

No one will admit it but he did why do you think Bruce found it so necessary to change his martial art? Did Royce Gracie discount Brazilian Jujitsu after his long fight with Kimo? No you only change things that much when you lose. Bruce was a number 10 athlete but only a 7 or 8 martial artist and a legend in the kung fu movies.

[MatthewAlphonso]

This is rubbish. Bruce is the greattest fighter that as ever lived he could punch 3 times before u blinked.

I can only hope that you're joking. Otherwise, this is exactly the type of post I was talking about.

[fenwick99]

internet is a wonderful tool

but it turns every moron on earth into an expert.
Oh, by the way, there is a bum who lives in my neighborhood. He washes windows, sweeps floors, and pesters customers and employees of local buinesses for money so he can buy cigarettes and lottery tickets.....
HE ONCE BEAT UP BRUCE LEE.......
Seriously, Sijo DeMile was an Armed Forces boxing champ, and Sijo Glover was "there"
and are these guys LYING? I'm not a afraid of too many things, but I would not call Jesse Glover a liar to his face.
Nothing like the web for historical revisionism.