Wong Jak Man kicked Brue's ass.

[Norm Lee]

I think what we are trying to establish here though is what the outcome of the conflict was based on the evidence we have.
I have a vague recollection of a fight Dan Inosanto described between Bruce and someone (I really can't remember if it was Wong though) from what I can remember (and it could well have been embelished by the reporter) it started with the opponent throwing hand strikes at Bruce who blocked/deflected them before making his advance...so Bruce counter attacked, now if this was the Wong Jak Man fight that would show a different start to it and add a different emphasis.
I'll have to try and either dig out my old kung fu mag's or try searching the web for it unless someone has it at hand?

[MatthewAlphonso]

1-2 pages back I posted a description of the fight that I got/plagiarized from martialinfo.com.

[georgie]

i still think that this fight didnt last any longer than 5 minutes. even the most evenly matched UFC fight rarely lasted that long and that was gracie grappling. maybe wong was good but you cant tell me this fight with no rules lasted 20 - 25 minutes. i tend to beleive lees side of it not because hes bruce lee but almost everyone knows on this forum that fights dont last that long especially when your as good as these guys may have been. this was no match with rounds or points. not like boxing or full contact karate, this was a no holds barred slugfest. think about it for a minute 20 - 25 minutes is a long time for a street fight. did they stop for refreshments? come on! all the knowlege you possess about the martial arts tells you im right and theres no way this scrap went that long. and who said it did? wong did. i think hes got it all wong.

[Norm Lee]

Ok cheers I'll check out the last few pages.
Yeah fights are always quicker than they seem at the time.

[MatthewAlphonso]

I never tried to say that the fight did last for 20 minutes, the article I got said that. I'm just trying to say that it was a draw. they were both excellent fighters and unless one of us was there, I doubt we'll ever learn the truth about it. we could always kidnap Wong, give him some truth serum and mebbe get some answers, hmmmm....

[Norm Lee]

Yeah like the way you're thinking I wouldn't want to be the one trying to hold him down though!
You're right of course we'll never know, this message board brings up some interesting theories though.

[georgie]

whos knows what really happened. wong is a kung fu grandmaster now and bruce lee is pushin up daisies. its funny how they both had a lot to lose by saying they lost. kidnapping is grand idea but would be the wong thing to do. chick o the china, the chinese chicken, fight with wong jack man and your brain stops tickin!!!

[Norm Lee]

You said a mouthful there!
But whatever Wong is doing now I bet he wishes he had achieved more in his life than being remembered as being the man Bruce Lee beat.

[m.artist]

Part of hardcore M.A. training is to train away most of these unnecesary reflexes such as instantly raising both of your hands after being hit in the face, Wong wouldn't have run for the same reason Lee wouldn't have run, 1)saving face and 2) where would he run to?

oh and Georgie, just because no one saw him fight doesn't mean Wong couldn't, why would he have to prove anything. Plus we've already established the fact that Wong DID TEACH CAUCASIANS. And Lee most likely changes his style because it would aid his image, what exactly did he change? he simply told people to train in a wide variety of MA's, take what works and discard the rest, I'm not a Lee basher (hell, he could fight) but that doesn't seem very revolutionary to me, just seems like common sense.

Just becaues Wong was trained not to flinch doesn't mean he didn't.

[MatthewAlphonso]

Just becaues Wong was trained not to flinch doesn't mean he didn't.

Just because Lee trained to win doesn't mean he did.


The same principle could be applied to anything, for example, just because I try to type well doesn't mean I do.

the fact is that the article says that Wong only had 1 visible mark on his face and that Lee had none, I was simply giving theories on how that could be and also arguing with Georgie about previously established facts.

Damn, just when I thought this convo was coming to a close, it start right back up...

[Norm Lee]

The M A training, over-riding your reflexes so when you get hit in the face you don't raise your hands' is an ok principle but it will probably lead to you getting hit in the face a lot more. And that stuff about Wong Jak manbeing able to be hit anywhere and not feeling any pain...please! Introduce him to a 'well past his best' Mike Tyson and he'll experience a whole new world of pain he didn't know existed.

[MatthewAlphonso]

I fail to see how this could lead to getting hit more often, if anything you would get hit less because you would be less likely to take your hand off of the opponent and would be more focused on defending yourself. In the flinch reflex you move your hands, don't flinch and you don't move your hands as much.

[Norm Lee]

I know what you're saying but if it was that easy boxers would stand with their forearms in permanent contact trying to out sense their opponent. Boxers are super exponents at bobbing and weaving, ducking and slipping punches too even with high guards but they always get hit it's unavoidable when someone is throwing punches in a full blown attack. To leave you face unprotected and to watch punches coming at you expecting to avoid them all is a bit of a crazy way to defend yourself especially when the opponent has super fast hand speed!
I know in a perfect world you would train to excellence and see the moves and avoid them but no on is perfect and real fights tend to be sloppy unlike in the movies.

[MatthewAlphonso]

Several good points, and once again, I concede to you. But why then would the report say that Wong had only 1 mark and Lee had none? Common sense would dictate that both would have several bruises on their faces. Perhaps, as a I said before, they had an agreement to try to not hit the face. Lee perhaps got overzealous or decided to attack Wongs face to get him to open up more.

[MatthewAlphonso]

Several good points, and once again, I concede to you. But why then would the report say that Wong had only 1 mark and Lee had none? Common sense would dictate that both would have several bruises on their faces. Perhaps, as a I said before, they had an agreement to try to not hit the face. Lee perhaps got overzealous or decided to attack Wongs face to get him to open up more.

God, I gotta stop checking the posts late at night...