Wong Jak Man kicked Brue's ass.

[Red Rum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Jack_Man

I imagine if Wong had won the fight he would have insisted that Bruce stop teaching and make steps to stop him

[lucidmist]

Wong Jak Man kicked Bruce's ass. - not likely

You said it.

But, no disrespect to Wong Jak Man. I mean, my 5-year-old nephew could take me down.

[YINYANGMAN]

"I don’t hate the US by any means - what i do hate is the general superiority complex that they seem to have! "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! THIS, COMING FROM A "BRIT"!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Seriously though, this is stupid really. This arguing is like arguing that you are better because your native ball team is better. It's bullsh**. It's like saying, "We beat you!!" The fact is, you didn't do sh**!! You are arguing about who's politics are better or whose military is better, it's stupid, really. None of us have anything to do with it. We are all little insignificant pawns in THEIR little games.

ALL cultures have things to be extremely proud of and things to be extremely ashamed of. If we can't realize that, then we are all truly morons.

Let it go.

Yep.You got it.
Pride is bull,just an illusion.Nationalism leads to self righteousness.
We are ALL the same,human.And caught up in power ego's that run 'governments'.

Re Bruce....Bruce was the best/most affective exponent of MA in my opinion,for he was ALL ROUNDED (intuitively and physically)...not just good at this aspect,or that aspect.
He was fast hitter,and fast thinker...sorry FEEEEELER

[wsdddoa012]

response

blending and mixing are two different things...

[fenwick99]

interesting talk

There is a guy at my gym who is a brown belt or red belt in some Korean eclectic TKD/HKD style, and he likes to debate with me about martial arts. I guess it started one day when he saw me doing some wc chain punching when I was running on the treadmill. I asked me what I was doing, and I told him that I was doing some wing chun; at some of my previous locales I had trained wc, and I like to keep up with what I can, though I have no current
access to a school, a dummy, or a chi-sao partner. This gentleman has no interest whatever in sparring me, I might add, but he likes to talk. Yesterday he told me that
TKD is the best art because it is the most original-- unchanged in 4000 years. I politely told him that almost every publicly taught martial art system
(in the US)
is both eclectic and new, that is, under 200 years old. Even the oldest karate styles extent today are combinations of Okinawan "Te" with southern White Crane. And if there really is a 4000 y/o art out there, why would it be the best? Would you rather fight with a club or an h-bomb? While it is true that you may be able to find a pre-1800 art taught in its pre-1800 form, it would be very hard to get the sifu or sensei to teach you. Some wish to remain ignorant, and don't want to be confused by the facts. JKD is about 40 years old now, and that makes it fairly well established. If anyone out there thinks himself to be of more value to the martial arts community than Guro Inosanto, then let him bring forth his profound teachings and let him dazzle us all.

[tkd_wrestler]

I just want to see that Bruce Lee won fights and he lost fights. It happens to the best of us. However, if you use common sense Bruce must have won the fight with Wong Jak Man or else he would have been forced to close his school. He created jeet kune do realizing that the fight could have gone a lot better than it had.

[fenwick99]

re

I believe that if Bruce lived, he would have veered away from martial arts and become a movie writer, producer, and director. I think he would have continued his own training, but he would have turned the reins of jkd over to his top students, and withdrawn from the broader martial arts community.
In terms of his own training, his money would have bought him access to kung fu styles which would have complemented his wc, like mantis, white eyebrow, white crane, and further tai chi training. I do think he was losing patience with the martial arts subculture even while he was still in the States, and he would have distanced himself from the subculture had he returned. And on a final note, I am glad that Mr. Red Rum has called our att'n to Master Kevin Chan. For all we know he may be the best wing chun man out there. In terms of British wing chun, I had heard of Sean Radcliffe, Alan Lamb, Simon Lau ( a friend of a friend ) and a few others, but not Kevin Chan, and I may not have known about Sifu Chan had it not been for this thread. So I return to my lonely practice of Sil Lim Tao and chain punching, hoping to get better. BRAD

[Red Rum]

I am glad that Mr. Red Rum has called our att'n to Master Kevin Chan. For all we know he may be the best wing chun man out there. In terms of British wing chun, I had heard of Sean Radcliffe, Alan Lamb, Simon Lau ( a friend of a friend ) and a few others, but not Kevin Chan, and I may not have known about Sifu Chan had it not been for this thread. So I return to my lonely practice of Sil Lim Tao and chain punching, hoping to get better. BRAD

Before anyone starts ripping this apart. I have never said that Kevin Chan is the best wing chun guy out there. In my opinion he is the best wing chun guy I have seen in person, because his chi sao is adaptable, folding and he uses footwork exceptionally. His fighting skills are certainly some of the best I have seen in any martial art. His form work is practical and he knows the theories behind them (rather than just saying, you do them like that because that's the way I was taught!!!). His drill work is realistic and helps develops good students.

Certainly if I was given the choice of people not to end up in a fight with, he would be near the top.

However, I have not been all round the world. I have not seen (in person) Sifu Fong that people were talking about on another post. I have not seen Master Sken in MT although I have trained with some of his students.
I have seen people like Ip Chun who are incredibly good at chi sao/forms etc, but that is all. They lack the realism of a fight situation which is where Kevin Chan gets a lot of respect. He grew up fighting a lot of people. He was born in Glasgow and grew up in Portsmouth (two of the hardest towns in the UK)He used to have to deal with idiots at his parents Chinese restaurant and basically never turns down a fight

As a person he is extremely humble, but always willing to help. He is very intelligent and good at business. He has managed to expand Kamon to over 45 classes in 14 years. Many of the instructors are extremely good and well trained in arts, not just in wing chun

Kevin Chan himself is a very well known figure in BJJ. Currently holds a Brown belt under the Gracies but is very talented at the art. He has won many tournaments and is apparently very close to getting his black belt.

He trains boxing almost every day with an ex pro boxer who had 43 fights (undefeated). He also works kickboxing with various well known people including Dean Meringo from the UFC

I certainly haven't gone into Kamon with Emerald Glasses and understand that there are many talented martial artists in the UK and beyond, but is the combination of talent mixed with a great teaching style that makes him one of the best.

The main reason why people have heard of Sean Rawcliffe and Alan Lamb is that they release videos and books etc. I'm not criticizing that, but I do believe that people put too much faith in books and videos. I would never let a video convince me of anything. Even our vids on the Kamon site don't look as good as the real thing.

[danielr]

i think you are all talking out of your asses non of you know Dan Inosanto you should work on telling the truth are you actually martial artist as well or just a bunch of fat computer jockies

[jubaji]

So, what exactly are you trying to say?

[fenwick99]

re:

I have thought for a long time, and still do, that many or most of the internet
critics of Bruce Lee would not fight Linda Lee
let alone Bruce. Probably
most of these internet flamethrowers are mouths who have not fought since high school and have not trained since the Ford administration. I consider myself to be a very bad, bad martial artist, a lousy martial artist,
but I still train and I have fought.
It is easy to sit behind a keyboard and sound like Yoda, but it is harder to fight. It is harder still to fight a real athlete who wants to kick your butt.
Get out from behind the keyboard, join a gym, and enter a local mma event to show how bad you are. If Bruce were still with us he would laugh at you
dickweeds.
JKD is fighting, and fights are real. Any 6 year old can talk stuff.

[blackdan]

who cares....does it really matter?
Enjoy your training

[Garth]

I heard that bruce loved to partake in orgies and he died while having sex.

[fenwick99]

Oswald did it and acted alone

If Bruce Lee did lose to Master Wong, then it only proves one thing-
that Linda Lee has a tenuous grasp of facts, or a penchant for perpetuating hoaxes.
Do we throw out the work of Tom Edison because some of his
projects failed.
Personally, I believe that Bruce Lee did in fact beat Wong
easily in only three minutes or so. A prominent BL student, who I will not name, once
told me that

Bruce's only real problem was that Wong could run backwards as
quickly as Bruce could move forwards. (I know... he was not there, and Bruce was his sifu!)
However, Lee was a cocky kid at that age, a kid who needed
a sound spanking. It is too bad that Lee at 24
could not have been taken down and choked out in
10 seconds by Helio Gracie or Grandmaster Chang- that
would have knocked some of the "piss and vinegar" out of him, and spurred him even more to develop and perfect jkd.
I have written to Linda asking her to go to court and deposing her view of the thing under oath, but so far the Lee Estate does not care what internet trolls and Black Belt magazine authors think.
Leo Fong had to stop Lee from destroying Jimmy Wu limb-from-limb
at the Black Belt office of Mr. Uyehara, and Wu was no pansy.

[Justthefacts]

Witnesses

It's important to remember that Linda Lee's version of her husband's fight with Wong Jack Man is identical to the late James Lee's version. James Lee repeated this same version to Sifu Leo Fong. A 1972 phone call from Bruce Lee to student Dan Lee was audiotaped and Bruce states that he was sick of "b.s. artists like Wong Jack Man." Bruce Lee was tired of hearing about Wong Jack Man complaining to others that the fight was a draw and that he held back his kicking techniques, so that he would not hurt Bruce. The only myth about this fight eminating from the Bruce Lee camp is not the details of the fight itself, but the actual reason for the fight. Wong Jack Man did not insist that Lee stop teaching Caucasians, but he was merely challenging Bruce Lee to back up his claim in a San Francisco newspaper that he was the best martial artist in the Bay area.