HAPKIDO in the UFC...

[Athecy]

I dont think I have ever seen anyone in the UFC, K-1, or Pride or any of the other full contact organizations thats comes from a Hapkido background. I was wondering how do you think someone with a strong base in Hapkido who has also trained in Muay Thai and BJJ would do in these events?

Im not sure about other Hapkido schools but in ours we are also taught how to throw the opponent off a kick. I havent really seen that in any other Hapkido schools except maybe 1. Our defense against kicks really work well with the TKD guys, and other karate or whatever. My Muay Thai trainer told me in advance that those types of sweeps and throws werent allowed in Muay Thai so I dont use them in Muay Thai.

So what do you guys think?

[grubbogoppoly]

Hmm

Why don't you get in there and show us

[Tom Yum]

San Shou uses takedowns from kick catches, so they do work but are not used in muay thai.

[Athecy]

Why don't you get in there and show us

Im planning on it... after I get more Muay Thai and BBJ training. Ive only been training Muay Thai for 2 months

[grubbogoppoly]

Hope you do well

[Kosh]

I can see that Hapkido would be helpful in UFC, in conjunction with other arts. But Hapkido is purely about stopping fights not so much winning them par se.

Hapkido does (or should) cover kick defence for all types of kicks, aswell as punch defence and throw defence.

Also covers strangle defence, though im not sure of the rules in UFC.

Punching in Hapkido is also very comprehensive, one of my favourite aspects of the art.

Good set of kicks too, hundreds in fact.

I think Hapkido would fair well because its a 'dirty' art (as some would say); it acknowledges the lack of rules in a fight.

The only area it would fall short is in ground fighting...which isnt something a Hapkdio master would endulge in usually.

[ryanhall]

Good set of kicks too, hundreds in fact.

This hampers you in both a real fight and a ring one.

Hapkido does (or should) cover kick defence for all types of kicks, aswell as punch defence and throw defence.

Most 'defenses' don't really work very well. Especially the ones that involve a highly telegraphed blow thrown by a completely compliant opponent (trad martial art ones--including the ones that I was taught in Hapkido).

Punching in Hapkido is also very comprehensive, one of my favourite aspects of the art.

It's not nearly as good as that found in western boxing. I've done both, and the Hapkido guys generally hit like pansys. The reverse is not true.

An art focusing on wrist locks, throws, and needlessly fancy kicking would not fare well in the UFC (not by a long shot).

[Kosh]

Originally posted by ryanhall
An art focusing on wrist locks, throws, and needlessly fancy kicking would not fare well in the UFC (not by a long shot).

Thats true, but thats not Hapkido.

I said it would help, mixed with other arts.

My master teaches Hapkido to the police in the area and many bouncers in this country hold Hapkido belts. I guess wanting to defend yourself and wanting to fight are two very different things.

[Kosh]

Originally posted by ryanhall

This hampers you in both a real fight and a ring one.

Strange comment...does learning chess hamper you in a fight, does learning how to play the guitar hamper you in a fight.

Someone trained in Hapkido could do all the kicks that someone trained in Thai boxing could do...and more. They dont have to use them all in a fight. It all depends on how you apply what you know.

Most of the people i speak to in class, many of which who can do very flashy kicks, wouldnt do them in a fight.

[ryanhall]

1) You fight the way you train
2) It's a waste of time to train things that you will not use
3) It's likely that most of the people in your class haven't been in many or any real fights
4) Hick's Law: the more options that your brain has, the longer it will take to decide on one

Someone trained in Hapkido could do all the kicks that someone trained in Thai boxing could do...and more.

They wouldn't do them nearly as well as the Thai boxer. I know a karateka that spends quite a lot of time on kicking--lots of kicking, lots of kicks. I don't spend very much time with kicking. I can throw a harder low roundhouse and a quicker, less telegraphic, more powerful push kick than he can. Why? I only train about 3 kicks.

A hapkidoist can train 'hapkido punching' all they want, but they will not punch better than a boxer who spends all of his time on hands.

Thats true, but thats not Hapkido.

Actually, it is. Unless all of the Hapkido schools that I have been to are so radically different than yours.

I guess wanting to defend yourself and wanting to fight are two very different things.

They are, but there is a significant amount of overlap between the physical skills. Most traditional martial artists don't have the skills necessary for either. Sorry if that comes as a shock, but it's true. Combat sports aren't the best way to train for self-defense, but I'd bet on a boxer, grappler, or Thai fighter against just about any trad martial artist. Why? Combat sport practitioners focus on things that work within the bounds of their rules. Most traditional disciplines teach methods that don't work under any set of rules or lack thereof. Also, the things that separate the skill sets of self-defense and fighting are generally more mental than physical.

[Kosh]

Originally posted by ryanhall
Actually, it is. Unless all of the Hapkido schools that I have been to are so radically different than yours.

If they are in American, they probably are.

[ryanhall]

Kosh,
I find that difficult to believe, seeing as Hapkido was introduced to America before Britain, but I'll reserve judgement until I get the chance to watch or train with some foreign Hapkido practitioners.

[jules]

An art focusing on wrist locks, throws, and needlessly fancy kicking would not fare well in the UFC (not by a long shot)

Hapkido has "fancy Kicks"? I thought that they only had the basic ones... Anyhow, Hapkido and other "stand-up locking" art's are not designed to beat up people. They are designed to make people calm down (that's why law enforcement agencies use them). The only way i see it being used in MMA is if they actually fall down on the lock ala Saku Vs. Silvio(?) Gracie..

[ryanhall]

Hapkido has "fancy Kicks"? I thought that they only had the basic ones

Nope. When I was in Hapkido, they had us doing spinning heel kicks, spinning back kicks, jump double snap kicks, and crap like that. This is not uncommon at Hapkido schools.

[Tom Yum]

Someone mentioned that hapkido practices the same kicks and strikes as muay thai.

There's a big difference between the way thaiboxers and hapkidoists practice their kicks. Hapkidoists snap their kicks like TKD, except for the front kick, side kick and stomp kick. Those kicks have more thrust. Most hapkido kicks do not have weight behind them, rather rely on chamber and snapping for rapid fire kicks with decent force but not the same power.

Muay thai kicks are few and practiced way more repetitively. Plus they have the practicioners weight behind them increasing their power. Some hapkido guys have awesome kick power, but most thaiboxers have awesome kick power.

TKD/HKD guys who switch over throw knees with little power, but good speed. They throw it like they throw a chamber for a kick, so they pop the knee up pretty quick but do not thrust their hips fully behind it as much as thaiboxers. Plus they are unfamiliar in the clinch and how to plumb and close the gap in the clinch.

Hapkido control techniques are good and do work!! People get the idea that its done voluntarily. First off when someone grabs you, they expect you to resist and so they get ready to pull even harder. They do not expect you to step with them or at an angle. Likewise, if someone pushes you they do not expect to be pulled or spun. By messing with their balance and expectations, you get the element of suprise.

The minute hands are pushing you, step with it seize the fingers, wrist or elbow and use your body weight and leverage to execute the lock. Hapkido can be used to prevent escalations into fights and can help you reverse a lot of common street holds (front and rear bear hug, head locks, full nelson, shoving, pulling)

Hapkido works well at de-escalating, improving your position in an escalation and using leverage to cause pain in the process. If I can reverse a bear hug, put in a kick stand (so I don't get thrown ) and get a shoulder lock or neck crank I will make it hurt.

You've seen the police footage of that small off duty police officer against that bodybuilding pimp in H-town, right? The big pimp gets smacked down and knocked out by an average looking guy.