Question for the WTF people

[Damian Mavis]

Hey uh, there is something that I'm still foggy about even though I've trained at some WTF schools a bit and might even start teaching at one soon heh.

The question is: do you guys block when you spar or is it all about evasion and countering of your opponents attack. I'm talking about the official rules for WTF sparring.

I'm getting my kukkiwon certificate soon and going to start going to WTF competitions in Asia so want to know if I'm officially allowed to block. I don't think I've ever seen anyone block in the olympics.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Great Sage]

Yeah, you can block... However, most guys don't for three reasons:

1) Guys are cocky and want to look macho, as if they don't need to keep their hands up at all. Often, this leads to more exciting fights where guys exchange heavy kicks.

2) Blocking is essentially useless because kicks usually break through defenses and you end up injuring your arm. Your chest protector can usually absorb enough of the impact, provided you don't take too many direct hits.

3) Blocking is susceptible to feints and mutlitple kicks. It's hard to block someone whose throwing a front-to-round-to-side-to-axe-kick combination. Regardless of it's real effect (most kicks that win points don't hurt at all), you will lose the match if you continually get hit. It's more advisable to use mobility; evade and attack.

Therefore, you can block all you want, but be ready to counter. One memorable match I lost (it was during a grand championship) was as follows: The Korean guy was lightning quick (with hands down ofcourse). I was blocking too much, but he got points anyway because the judges kept hearing my chest protector go "thump"....

[Szczepankiewicz]

Besides, blocking is racist.

[fullcircle]

When I was a tournament whore, I would only block to set up a counter.

[AdamTKD]

WTF Competition blocking

To answer your question I'll adapt a Bruce Lee quote, possibly not the done thing but what the hell.

If you block a kick you'll probably find yourself having to defend a second kick (combination)......whereas if you dodge or evade you can the majority of the time use an attack sequence of your own.

In any case the more kicks you use the greater the chance of scoring points. I suppose it all comes down to the quality of the opponent......I once saw a yellow tag vs a black belt, it lasted a maximum of ten seconds before the towel was thrown in.....poor yellow tag.

Adam.

[osopardo]

I've been taught to block only to set up a counter. And that, only when blocking will cause more pain to the opponent than to you, the blocker (some blocks are actually themselves counters).

When advanced students only block it is considered a tacit compliment to their opponent, as if to say, the attack was too fast or too tricky to evade and blocking was the next best alternative (the worst alternative is to get hit).

BTW - question back at you - if you're going to teach WTF, how different are the forms from ITF to WTF? Hyungs to Poomses, or vice-versa? I've had to learn the Palgwe and Taegeuk forms. I'm told WTF no longer requires Palgwe. Then there's TA. ATA, TSD, MDK...-they each have different names for their forms but I haven't tried to do a comparison of the contents - it makes the mind reel!

[AdamTKD]

WTF - ITF Patterns

I've no idea how WTF Patterns compare with those of ITF as I've never seen any ITF students/classes.

I'm not a teacher/instructor by the way, just a humble student.

Does this answer question?

Adam.

[Damian Mavis]

He was talking to me Adam, heh.

For the theory that blocking is a waste of time... that might be true in a arena where hands aren't an issue but I assure you... when you jam up and your opponent starts mashing your face with his fist you block or bleed. Also fighting in a ring with ropes would make evasion an impossibility once you're backed into a corner, you'd have to block. But I understand how evasion works for WTF and I've seen really good WTF people evade really well.

As for patterns.... most WTF instructors I know agree with me... that WTF patterns look like poo next to ITF patterns. You have to remember that ITF comes from a very traditional background and has solid powerful patterns based on old karate. We put our entire body into each movement and by the end of one pattern you should be dripping in sweat and breathing heavy. I have never seen anyone do a WTF pattern like that.

When I first get to Thailand I will most likely be hired by a WTF school to teach.... down the road I'd like to open an ITF school but we'll see how things go.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[ipscshooter]

If you guys would like to see video of the forms, this website is an excellent source:

http://mchenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/forms/index.htm

It has Tang Soo Do forms, as well as both ITF and WTF Tae Kwon Do forms.

[MichiganTKD]

Blocking

Depends on where you train. When we fought, we didn't block in the traditional sense for several reasons:
1. Traditional blocking in free fighting tends to be slower than the pace of the fight, especially if the guy is going quite fast.
2. Blocking can be interpreted as wanting to hurt the guy you are sparring against, since blocks tend to have quite a bit of power. We learned to give with our bodies to prevent linear kicks from reaching us, sidestepping, and keeping our hands up to minimize high roundhouse contact. Instead of outright blocking, we adapted almost an aikido approach-a guy can't hurt you or even contact you if you know how to get out of the way.
True story: I had a brown belt in TKD come to my class several years ago when I was teaching to spar our students. His kicking was very short, like karate, and our students weren't used to it. He contacted most of them, because they couldn't react to short kicking. He came back the next day, but this time our students used steps and distance. He couldn't contact our green belts, and we never saw him again.

[TKDguy]

blocking is perfectly leagal but why block when you can stop the kick from even coming. i have shut down people and other people have shut me down by doing this. when youre opponent begins to kick intercept it with your foot(i guess this is a kind of block) and it works very well. this also works with punches when yor opponent starts to punchget in close and try to stop the punch before it starts. this is a good way to stifle your opponent and controll the match.

[Spookey]

Legalities...

TKDGuy,

We refer to that as a checking kick...However, for some reason I thought checking kicks (per WTF Rules) constituted kicking a non target area and was not allowed.

If I missed the point or am wrong please correct me!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

[magic]

The only real "block" used by most advanced WTF fighters is the cover block, which has one arm held high and one low, with the elbows together. It can be used in a scissor action to push the kick away from the jacket to prevent scoring, and effectively covers much of the target area. However, most only use it at as a last resort, when they cannot use to footwork to evade.

Better to concede a point than to get a broken arm I guess . . .

Martin

[TKDguy]

this is true spookey but then again i have never fought wtf rules in a tournement only full contact karate.

[TKDTyger]

Blocking

Well as most have said I have learned to block only as a prelude to a counter. If you are to go into asia and compete in WTF competitions, I would suggest minimal blocking. Asians, Korean specifically spend much time practicing speed and power and unless you practice blocking for hours a day, I do not believe you would be able to constantly block their kicks.

I know koreans do lots of shin conditioning, not as much or hardcore as Tai fighters, but enough to weaken the nerves. They do this for a few reasons, but mainly for when kicking elbows and forearms. I assure you that your arms will tire before most of their legs do.

Evading or crowding is the best defense in any WTF fight. When you evade your body moves where you want and your balance is controlled by you. If you block and your oppenent kicks harder than you expect, you could jepordize your balance creating a nice hole for your oppenent. I would suggest practicing your sidesteps, slide backs, switching feet, and similar foot works. Asia is another complete animal when it comes to WTF comp. Good luck and I hope this tid bit from my experiance will help.