The question was asked when I was talking to someone about cross-training in some grappling. So, are the Koreans now adopting Judo and changing its name? Are there any differences (other than the spelling)? How long has this been going on? What's up wi' dat?
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
What about Yudo?
Collapse
X
-
Been around Awhile!
Originally posted by osopardoThe question was asked when I was talking to someone about cross-training in some grappling. So, are the Koreans now adopting Judo and changing its name? Are there any differences (other than the spelling)? How long has this been going on? What's up wi' dat?
Japanese origins that has been formatted to the Korean culture!
Remeber, the Japanese influence which was forced on the Koreas for some 36+ years has had some influence on the Korean culture...it is however, the FORCED influence that causes Korea to hate everything Japanese!
More than a quarter century of history and developement was lost!
In regards to your original question. Yudo is directly related to Judo...to the untrained observer it looks exactly like Judo, the trained observer will notice some technical differences, however, the trained observer will notice technical differences in any two peoples technique!
It is my opinion that Yudo and Judo are typically the same!
TAEKWON!
Spookey
-
Originally posted by Spookey...it is however, the FORCED influence that causes Korea to hate everything Japanese!
And the korean tendency to feel threatened by everything not korean. Even the things they adopt from other cultures. Centuries of wars and occupations have really left that country with a collective mental problem.
Comment
-
Originally posted by jubajiAnd the korean tendency to feel threatened by everything not korean. Even the things they adopt from other cultures. Centuries of wars and occupations have really left that country with a collective mental problem.
One thing about the Koreans and their MA's is that they don't mess around. There are lots of humble Korean MAists whom were mercenaries during the Vietnam war. The US used them in close quarter confrontations. Did these guys ever win Ufc's - no, but america wouldn't have hired them if they couldn't do their job.
Comment
-
RoK Combat Soldiers!
Originally posted by Tom YumOne thing about the Koreans and their MA's is that they don't mess around. There are lots of humble Korean MAists whom were mercenaries during the Vietnam war. The US used them in close quarter confrontations. Did these guys ever win Ufc's - no, but america wouldn't have hired them if they couldn't do their job.
Some of these men (those that have control of their emotions) were sponsored by Americans and one may own the local TKD school in your area yet choose to teach a more sport based cirriculum! However, they were combat soldiers, not mechanics, medics, cooks, artillery, ect...they are killing machines!
As stated previously they have no championships to prove their abilities...they have BODY COUNTS!!!!
Spookey
TAEKWON!
Comment
-
Yeah, all the bad talk that surrounds TKD is because of people who water it down, not because it was never effective. When I was a youth and took TKD the master instructor could whip the whole damn class, his sons were quite impressive as well. I haven't seen anyone that could compare since then.
Comment
-
Yudo,
Dear all,
In regards to the original post...
Having some formal training in Judo (previous to my post on this thread), I made the assumption that Judo and Yudo were the same. I stand corrected!
Since my previous post, I have begun training with a Yudo based cirriculum. I have not only made a technical comparison but have also done some research on this topic!
Jigoro Kano modified the techniques (drastically) of Daito-Ryu Jujitsu to create a new art called Judo. This Judo was taught (along with other arts) during the occupation of Korea.
Kano Senseis cirriculum was later modified to allow randori to be safer and more competition oriented. Now, the majority of Judo dojos teach the sport modified aspects. The randori takes presedent!
Yudo, the original teachings of Kano still incompasses strikes, joint destruction, and chocking (as well as traditional revival techniques)...these techniques are often left out or under trained in common dojos.
Final summary, Yudo is to Judo what Olympic TKD is to what was practiced in the Korean Military during the sixties and early seventies!
TAEKWON!
Spookey
Comment
-
Originally posted by Spookey...I have begun training with a Yudo based cirriculum. I have not only made a technical comparison but have also done some research on this topic...
Comment
-
A little more background
Hello guys,
Here ia a little more background to understand the yudo/judo issue more thoroughly.
The Koreans haven't renamed judo "yudo" and they certainly haven't done it recently. Yudo is the Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters which are read "ju do" by the Japanese.
In the world of ancient Asia, China was the centre of power, technology, knowledge and culture. Much of this culture flowed down to Japan through Korea. Chinese written language, philosophy, pottery, sword making and many other things we associate with Japan today were verifiably introduced to the islands through 'the Land of the Morning Calm'.
There is also some argument that Korean fighting skills were imported to the Japanese islands and developed into jujutsu/yawari gi etc. Yu Sool is the Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters which comprise the "yielding art" we know as jujutsu today. Some argue that 'yu sool' spawned the empty handed tactics which were later developed more ideosyncratically by the classical Japanese warrior.
This may or may not not be the case but there is an argument to be made here.
The problem lies however in extending these historical facts in the following way. Yu sool begets jujutsu.(perhaps) Jujutsu begets judo.(in fact) Therefore judo is a Korean art which has been misappropriated by the Japanese. (Not a fair extention of the argument I think. )
The problem is also that no yu sool practitioners who are not using some recreation of the art exist today nor is there any verifiable evidence of there being any exponents left in the pre colonial period at the onset of the 20th Century. The examples are all ancient suggesting that these arts died out long ago.
However not all Korean Yudo people promote the art in this way. Some acknowledge the Japanese source of the art as a product of the Japanese colonial period. Kumdo/Kendo people also suffer from the same split, as do Taekwondo/Karate people. ( Although arguably Taekwondo has morphed further away from its Karate roots than Kumdo or Yudo.)
It would also be unfair to say the Koreans have re-named Kendo as Koreans have and use Chinese characters in addition to Hangul in their everyday life and those characters have their own pronunciation in Korean.
Korea has the longest history of practising judo of any country other than Japan. Judo isn't that old and it was introduced into Korea while it was still in its relative infancy. It is no wonder that Koreans have developed their own methods and strategies for the art. They are one of the strongest countries in the world in the art and if judoka are smart they will listen to and find much of great value in what Korean yudo players and teachers have to say about the art.
Jigaro Kano's life is extremely well documented. It would take only a few minutes with any search engine or judo book to find that the arts which led Kano to develop his judo were primarily the jujutsu forms known as the Kito ryu (which are still preserved today in judo's beautiful Koshiki no kata) and Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu.
Daito-ryu was the form of (aiki)jujutsu which led to formation of the arts of aikido and arguable Korean hapkido. I was fortunate enough to study that art while I was in Japan. Kano Jigaro, never studied the art himself but interestingly he sent some of his students (many decades after the formation of judo) to study with aikido founder Morihei Ueshiba and the fruit of this is seen in the most modern judo kata known as the Goshin-jutsu kata.
Comment
-
Originally posted by MJRHello guys,
Here ia a little more background to understand the yudo/judo issue more thoroughly.
The Koreans haven't renamed judo "yudo" and they certainly haven't done it recently. Yudo is the Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters which are read "ju do" by the Japanese.
In the world of ancient Asia, China was the centre of power, technology, knowledge and culture. Much of this culture flowed down to Japan through Korea. Chinese written language, philosophy, pottery, sword making and many other things we associate with Japan today were verifiably introduced to the islands through 'the Land of the Morning Calm'.
etc, etc, etc
.
Thats a nice story, and quite useful for comparative linguistics or the examination of ancient pottery shards, but the sad fact is that much of what is Korean culture today is a product of the 50 years of Japanese occupation ending with WWII.
Comment
-
Korean culture
Jubaji, I'm curious as to how much time you've spent in Korea and Japan to base this decision about an entire country's culture. It seems a pretty insensitive position. I've lived in both countries and while they share many things I find the cultures as different as say Greeks and Italians. There are points of reference between the cultures but they are as different as they are similar.
It would be nice to hear from some Koreans who have lived in Japan speak to this issue.
Getting back to the issue of Korean yudo. From the 1950s onward you can see numerous examples of a great many high ranking European and North American judoka who went to train at places like the Yudo College in Seoul (now located in Yong-In) to sharpen up their judo skills against the competition there. Judoka in Korean have always been strong.
Comment
-
One in the same aye?
Dear Sir,
I have but one major question that has arisen from your posts...
Being as you state that yudo is modern judo (per your previous post)... Why then can members of the Korean (RoK) Yudo Association not compete in the Olympics. What is the need for the Korean Judo (IOC) Association. Please bare in mind that these are two seperate intities.
What do I know about Korea and Japanese culture? Well, my father was an instructor of the Oh Do Kwan (Jung Ahn Ban Kwan, Seoul, Korea) and was a practitioner of Shorin Ryu Karate Do (Having visited Okinawa and Shimobukuro Sensei)!
Now a question for you! Being that Jujitsu derived from Yu Sool (per your previous post) what is the direct connection and source of Lineage?
Finally, what martial systems do you study and under whom do you receive your training?
TAEKWON!
Spookey
Comment
-
Hi Spookey
Hmmmm...
I don't recall anyone asking about your own background or calling into question your training. It sounds like your father has done some interesting things.
I asked Jubaji because I thought that he was perhaps being a bit hasty in over generalizing about Korean culture as it exists today. I've been over hasty myself at times, have been brought into line and have a better understanding of things because of it, even if I didn't appreciate it at the time. I think that anyone who spends a Saturday night in Pusan and another in Osaka can see that the cultures differ a great deal.
I personally don't believe that jujutsu was derived from yu sool but the argument is made and I am bringing attention to that fact because it plays into the modern yudo practitioner's argument that yudo is actually the original form. As my post mentions there is a lack of evidence here to support the claim.
There are many countries which have their own national groups for organizing and governing judo. There is one international organization which governs judo at an international level to make sure everyone plays on an even playing field. All the yudo players (and they don't call it judo because that's not the Korean pronunciation) I knew in Korea were free to register and go to the Olympics. Sometimes there are political problems. That there exists different organizations that do things differently I don't doubt.If you are sincerely interested in looking further into this matter you should really look at a site like www.judo-info.com. Lots of good information there from practitioners there from all over the world.
Does your father write any Korean? Is he a Korean national? If so ask him write the hanja for yudo and then the hanja for judo. Tell me how they differ?I don't believe that yudo has developed in exactly the same way that judo has, nor or the tactics and strategies the same as those of Japanese judoka. I have great respect for Korean yudo practitioners. I think a closer reading of my earlier post makes that clear.
As for my own training I don't think it plays into the judo/yudo argument. However I always include my real name and site which connects to my real training so I am saying things under the shield of anonymity. Other forums asks this of participants and I think it is a good policy. I've trained in Korean hapkido for 20 years under Master Hwang In-Shik (www.worldhapkido.com), a direct student of the founder of that art. I've travelled and lived in Japan at different times the most recent trip was from 2000-2002, where I studied Daito-ryu with Okabayashi Shogen's group, who himself was a student Hisa Takuma and then Takeda Tokimune the son of the founder of the art. During my first trip to Japan I trained at the Yoseikan under Mochizuki Minoru (8th dan judo, 10th dan aikido), who studied under the founders of both those arts. Since that time and during the period when I was living in Seoul (1994-1996) I have often trained with Japanese judoka and Korean yudoin. I have always learned a lot from those experiences.
Comment
-
With pride!
Dear Sir,
I speak without anonymity as well. I speak only that which I believe in and am open to further education even if not in accordance with my previous beliefs!
The information I received regarding the difference in yudo and judo derives directly from the Korean Mudo Association.
Yes, my Father is capable of reading and righting Korean so I will look at the characters as soon as possible!
TAEKWON!
Michael Bateman
"Spookey"
Comment
Comment