Tae Kwon Do, Stop knocking It!!!

[Tom Yum]

Besides, just hit the arm. It will break or drop it down and take the knee or the thigh that sets up for a nice hook kick to the head or a knee what ever you feel works best for you.

That's a good point, that people often neglect. If you block/cover a side kick against a highly skilled TKD guy, your arm will take serious damage maybe even get a slight fracture. Those side kicks have A LOT of force.

[Tom Yum]

Hmmm, well to me the side kick is pretty worthless unless you are fighting some untrained dumbo. All you have to do to block a side kick is use your elbow; when the person's foot comes at you, you smash into their ankle basically, and that pretty much ends their side kick cuz their foot is gonna hurt like hell.

Unless maybe you're up against some good TKD guy who can throw super fast side kicks, and might like fake one lower, then go with more power high so that you try to block the low one and thus open up your head, but for people who can't throw fast side kicks, they're kinda useless if the opponent knows how to handle them.

If you can't throw fast side kicks, aim them at the thigh/knee. Most high level TKD/TSD guys (and I'm talking 2nd dan or higher) can throw a pretty fast side kick and a powerfull one too.

[Yaberdaber]

Hmmm, well to me the side kick is pretty worthless unless you are fighting some untrained dumbo. All you have to do to block a side kick is use your elbow; when the person's foot comes at you, you smash into their ankle basically, and that pretty much ends their side kick cuz their foot is gonna hurt like hell.

Unless maybe you're up against some good TKD guy who can throw super fast side kicks, and might like fake one lower, then go with more power high so that you try to block the low one and thus open up your head, but for people who can't throw fast side kicks, they're kinda useless if the opponent knows how to handle them.

Funny... I've seen people get knocked down with side kicks. And these aren't dumbos, they're experienced fighters. Side kick is not so useless, it just needed to be used effectively at the right timing. Those kicks have power!

[Broadsword2004]

Yeah if used with the right timing maybe, but also a smart fighter isn't going to let a kicker throw a side kick at them; they're not going to move in a linear fashion, they will move in a circular fashion so that the guy can never align up properly to throw the side kick.

Also in those fights where you see guys get hit with side kicks, oftentimes moves such as smashing your elbow down onto the guy's ankle are prohibited.

The side kick is best used against people who cannot deal with it; against people who can, yeah, it can do damage if you can land it, but if they counter it properly, you can end up with a busted foot too.

[eXcessiveForce]

Trying to do an elbow on a properly executed sidekick is insane. It would probably get you knocked out. If that arm comes down you just rechamber it a bit and fire back at the head.

It does not sound like you have much experience with high level kickers. I don't need you to be linear, in fact all I need you to do is try and evade to the left or right. Most people move the wrong way when trying to evade TKD kicks. They think they are moving to safety but generally are moving into the kill zone.

[Yaberdaber]

Yeah if used with the right timing maybe, but also a smart fighter isn't going to let a kicker throw a side kick at them; they're not going to move in a linear fashion, they will move in a circular fashion so that the guy can never align up properly to throw the side kick.

Also in those fights where you see guys get hit with side kicks, oftentimes moves such as smashing your elbow down onto the guy's ankle are prohibited.

The side kick is best used against people who cannot deal with it; against people who can, yeah, it can do damage if you can land it, but if they counter it properly, you can end up with a busted foot too.

yeah, been there done that too, I always side stepped for those side kicks and I have caught and smashed an ankle one time. However, what I see that needs to be improved is when to do the kick so. circular is nice, but it's slow while linear will get you to point B faster. A side kick isn't just a kick learned once, it has to be practiced, improvised and adjusted to be efficient. It's kinda hard to grasp, but it's true.
BTW, it IS very easy to kick someone's standing leg if a side kick is used. I tend to aim for the knee or the inner thigh whenever a side kick is used against me. I believe this is easier than standing there and counter with an elbow or catching it.

[JumiZuki]

Basicaly what i am saying, is if you come from a half as "lets do patterns all day, and a "self defense" technique is just anotehr pattern with only 2 or 3 steps" school, al le WTF. You will suck the big one becasue you dont have ability to do anything that is not already put infront of you a few tiems before.

Another thing that most people dont understant is there is WTF taekwondo and ITF, which is almost a different style all together, but heres the scoop. I have been to classes of both styles and decided WTF was gay within 10 minutes. Not only do they know nothing abotu taekwondo as a form (ex: who crated taekwondo??............. Everybody man, its an ancient art. WRONG: General Choi Hung He, adapted it as a military fighting style from the style of the hwarang mercenaries that protected the royal family in the silla dynasty in korea, 2131 BC (not sure about that year)). That was a turnoff . Second of all when asked to proform a self defense technique agasnt a punch I trapped the arm and immobilized trhe fool, but was told that was wrong, and that i should do it like this...... this... was a forarm block then stepping out and punching.

Well, I would say that it's not so much about the style. It's more about the school, there are bad wtf schools and good ones. And probably even bad ITF schools. Like here in Finland WTF seems to have little longer average time for black belt than ITF (~5 vs ~3 years). But they are going to make it little faster at WTF. What I have read about their belt tests there are self defence techniques on different grappling situations like bear hug from behind and on ground when somebody is on the top.

About history.. It's not so simple that General Choi simply created the art. Choi was Oh Do Kwan's "leader", other kwan's had other leaders. And all kwans actually practiced japanese or okinawan karate, until they named their stuff in korean. There might be little taekyon, General Choi has said he trained it, but most of TKD is karate.


I like TKD, but due to my limited experience on other arts, it seems that TKD may lack something, to be effective self defence method. Forms have so little to do with any real world applications, or applications that exist in forms are not practised in any other way than doing them alone. I like doing forms by the way, I have nothing against them. Another thing is sparring with competition rules.. Month ago I visited karate school and sparring was very different without boxing gloves and foot protectors with allowed grappling and kicks below belt. And at our school we do ground grappling too seldom, it's bit hard to really learn anything, when it's practised 1-4 times a year. Techniques that we do as a self defence, seem to be okay, but it seems that them too aren't practised enough. But anyway, I think that good enough self defence skills are learned from TKD, it just takes a while.

Not that I would care about self defence very much, self defence being just minor part of reasons why I am interested about martial arts. TKD is a great art because it's fun to kick people to head.

People who knock TKD, often doesn't really understand why most people practise martial arts. It's not so much about trying to improve fighting capability to maximum. It's more like social physical exercise that is damn fun. And inside school, where most fighting happen, it really don't matter what kind of fighting is used, it's always hard to be best. Those who compete are rare and those who would compete against people from other martial arts are even more rare. Situations like where I would fight kick/thaiboxer are not very probable, so why care about those?

Compared to muay thai, kickboxing and mixed martial arts, TKD have some good things.. Like chance of injury is smaller, hard contact to head is not so common, and TKD training is more varying; there is board breaking, forms, self defence techs, ground grappling, basic techs, step sparring etc. More about injuries; my chin is still making sounds because I got jumping back kick there.. And it was in light contact match. Makes me wonder how full of injuries I would be if we would do full contact. And what I have heard about those who do MMA, they usually have at last one injury. Would really suck if had to have pauses in training because of injury.. More contact, more damage, less training...

[Broadsword2004]

Trying to do an elbow on a properly executed sidekick is insane. It would probably get you knocked out. If that arm comes down you just rechamber it a bit and fire back at the head.

It does not sound like you have much experience with high level kickers. I don't need you to be linear, in fact all I need you to do is try and evade to the left or right. Most people move the wrong way when trying to evade TKD kicks. They think they are moving to safety but generally are moving into the kill zone.

Actually, I said already against a speedy kicker it is unwise to try and hit their ankle with the elbow because you'll open up your head. I was referring more to a committed powerful side kick, in which it is very difficult to withdraw the leg back.

And yes, it is fairly easy to evade speedy side kicks if you know how to move right. What you have to watch out for when moving left or right is the roundhouse kicks.

[eXcessiveForce]

I'd be more concerned about a hook kick and it's damn hard to evade if you get hit because your ribs are broke or at least you have the wind knocked out of you.

Personally I like a side kick followed by a reverse sidekick.


To defend against it it would be better to get to a clinch and jam the leg my moving to the inside and into them as quickly as possible.