TKD vs Boxing: Not art vs art discussion!!!

[pstevens]

I don't think I used the word clinch once, you're reading into it, I said "close the distance", which is not the same as clinching. And I never said grabbing that wrist was easy,I said it was hard.... Problems with your reading and comprehension then?

A boxer closes the distance for 2 primary reasons:

1. To clinch and avoid further damage. From here he can find ways of opening his opponent up.

2. To throw combinations.

In Short, your claims are completely ridiculous...

Not if you're a boxer who's only just started sparring outside of boxing as I said "when we first started sparring", he has since gotten wise. And i don't know how you pull your axe kicks fella but mine are quite quick. Granted it does come off the back foot in a long arc, so in order to make it effective one has to make it unexpected as you would with most moves.

My statements are in regards to boxing and TKD as delivery systems. But thank you for clarifying your experience against a boxer.... Really... Can we now assume a grown adult has a chance against an infant?

[Piston]

A boxer closes the distance for 2 primary reasons:

1. To clinch and avoid further damage. From here he can find ways of opening his opponent up.

2. To throw combinations.

In Short, your claims are completely ridiculous...

Situation 2 is what I was talking about, anyone with any sense would have realised this. My claims are not ridiculous, they are perfectly applicable to the given situation, please give me a a vaild reason for once.

My statements are in regards to boxing and TKD as delivery systems. But thank you for clarifying your experience against a boxer.... Really... Can we now assume a grown adult has a chance against an infant?

My friend has plenty of experience boxing, I said that he was a " a boxer who's only just started sparring outside of boxing" at the time. We have sparred on many occaisions since, and our matches are very close because of it.

Can I just ask what your experince of TKD is exactly? Be honest now.

[kuk sool won]

pstevens your talking from such a biased view. I bet you 'tkd' experiences was a few months when you were 5.

Let me think, yesterday, i was watching a KICKBOXING event and guess what? no kicks to the legs oh dear theres an example.

There is no purpose in TKD's footwork? don't be daft of course there is, again i bet this is based on your extremely long TKD experiences, i didn't do TKD for that long but i was still taught footwork and guess what, it was stressed aswell.

Not all TKD is patter cake if you watch decent TKD you'll see a lot of knockouts.

I haven't seen actual knockouts by low kicks but i have seen SERIOUS damage done, do you think the footwork your've spend hours on is going to be any use then? The low kicks in MMA are against fighters with conditioned legs, Boxers don't have conditioned legs unless they cross-train but thats not whats has been asked.
In the last month iv'e seen at least two boxing orientated fighters stopped with low kicks in the first round.

you think TKD fighters aren't taught to avoid strikes? please, if your going to make points make them logical, for both our sakes. I think your the dream here buddy.

[eXcessiveForce]

I've seen plenty of people go down from leg kicks.

I've dislocated a few peoples knees in sparring and they dropped very quickly. lucky no serious injuries. And this was light contact.

[blitz]

Mike Bernardo vs Andy Hug. :O Andy Hug KO's Bernardo with a spinning heel kick to his thigh.
Also Jerome Le Banner vs Mike Bernardo.
Fransisco Filho vs Cyril Abidi
+ Anyone remember Pedro Rizzo vs Tank Abbott? I know it wasn't a KO with a leg kick but he sure as hell gave him some stunning low kicks.

[JkD187]

Rizzo vs Severn....enough said!

[KDH]

and who are these people?

[pstevens]

Rizzo vs Severn....enough said!

Severn is a wrestler... My statements reflect the experience of a boxer vs that of a TKD person, or kicker.... A more realistic analogy would be Mark Hunt, who fights in K-1, but rarely kicks. He just beat everyone because he's the best boxer.

[blitz]

Mike bernardo/Andy Hug/Fransisco Filho/Jerome Le Banner/Cyril Abidi are all K-1 fighters. Try dling some of k-1 mixed knockouts videos they will probably include those fighters.
Pedro Rizzo and Tank Abott And Severn fought in the UFC.

They are all great fighters.

[blitz]

Btw JKD what UFC was rizzo vs Severn in? I want to dl it!_!

[pstevens]

pstevens your talking from such a biased view. I bet you 'tkd' experiences was a few months when you were 5.

Oh please... So now we've come to personal attacks, eh?..

Look in the mirror pal... Only bias here is TKD guys who think snappy kicks are more effective than solid punching.

There is no purpose in TKD's footwork? don't be daft of course there is, again i bet this is based on your extremely long TKD experiences, i didn't do TKD for that long but i was still taught footwork and guess what, it was stressed aswell.

Look buddy, aside from short and long switches and stepping kicks, TKD DOES NOT have a system of footwork... I repeat... It DOES NOT have it. You are basically left to yourself to develop footwork. Neither does TKD teach you ring presence, etc...

Not all TKD is patter cake if you watch decent TKD you'll see a lot of knockouts.

Well, ofcourse you'll see TKD guys knocking each other out... Any solid attack that lands will knock someone out... But in a contest between a good kicker and good puncher, the puncher wins most of the time.

I haven't seen actual knockouts by low kicks but i have seen SERIOUS damage done, do you think the footwork your've spend hours on is going to be any use then? The low kicks in MMA are against fighters with conditioned legs, Boxers don't have conditioned legs unless they cross-train but thats not whats has been asked.
In the last month iv'e seen at least two boxing orientated fighters stopped with low kicks in the first round.

More generalizations, I see... Boxers do squats and run more often than most athletes... Ofcourse they have conditioned legs, where the heck did you get this crock of BS, the movies?

Fighters in MMA don't condition their legs anymore than boxers. They run, skip rope, do squats and maybe kick the bag... That's about it.

you think TKD fighters aren't taught to avoid strikes? please, if your going to make points make them logical, for both our sakes. I think your the dream here buddy.

TKD guys are taught to block strikes and kick back. Blocking a boxing combination is a mistake. A TKD guy has neither the reflexes or skill to counter a boxing combination.

You see, we're talking about 2 ranges here, which benefits the boxer more so than the TKD guy.

1. Clinch/Hands range... The boxer has this area owned to the very last aspect. He knows how to control his opponent, anticipate his reaction and cause a reaction.

2. Kicking range. The kicker has a slight edge in terms of power, but he's off balance (on one leg) and kicking is relative slower than punching... Plus, it's easier to see, especially from this range. Therefore, the boxer can simply step back, avoid the kick, then close in for the attack.

The true weakness of TKD is the moment the kicking leg begins its descent. You're left off-balance and you cannot launch another "effective" attack until your foot lands on the ground. This weakness has been exploited by many fighters.

[Piston]

The true weakness of TKD is the moment the kicking leg begins its descent. You're left off-balance and you cannot launch another "effective" attack until your foot lands on the ground. This weakness has been exploited by many fighters.

That has to be the greatest show of your lack of knowledge yet. Of course a TKD'er can launch more than one "effective" kick without his foot touching the ground again. He can use any combination of front snap kick, turning kick, side kick, hook kick, rising kick or bring the foot back into a chamber, and this is without using any dummy kicks or spinning kicks.

Also whoever taught you TKD must not have told you about foot positioning during all kicks except the front kick, pointing your toe on the standing foot behind you, giving you more foot to rest on and thus better balance. Difficult to master but very effective.

TKD guys are taught to block strikes and kick back. Blocking a boxing combination is a mistake. A TKD guy has neither the reflexes or skill to counter a boxing combination.

Bollocks, when was the last time you saw a WTF TKD'er block anything? I'm not saying what they do is smart, but they certainly don't block.

2. Kicking range. The kicker has a slight edge in terms of power, but he's off balance (on one leg) and kicking is relative slower than punching... Plus, it's easier to see, especially from this range. Therefore, the boxer can simply step back, avoid the kick, then close in for the attack.

Yah, see you gotta understand that a half decent TKD'er isn't simply gonna kick once and wait to get his nose broken. Kicking combonations can hold a boxer at bay especially ones that vary their angle and positioning, also the high chamber can make life tough for a boxer because that upward movement isnt required any more making kicks very quick whilst still having the distance.

You still haven't answered me about your TKD experience after you last brilliant flourish of ignorance I am even more intruiged.

[Tom Yum]

If he was clinching you, he’d be fighting for position to open you up, not simply standing there while you grab his wrist... No way you deliver a side kick from a boxer’s clinch... Not even a knee. The boxer’s clinch is much different from the Muay Thai clinch. The Thai clinch is designed to allow you the room to throw a knee. You are not chest to chest. More ridiculous BS on your part.
.

Have to agree with you pstevens. The boxer's clinch puts you face to face, belly to belly being held tight whereas the thai clinch gives distance (but also tight grip). Both boxers have atleast one overhook and maybe one underhook in the clinch..

I'm also calling this guys bluff because I've practiced korean MAs in the past and am now boxing. Side kicks are the TKD equivalent of the boxers jab (allthough they have more power) and are used to damage and set up distance for a harder or more deceptive kick.

It'd be silly to "jab" in a clinch. Honestly, a TKD guy would probably try to set up some kind of a sweep if he was caught in a boxers clinch, but sport TKD doesn't teach this so the sport TKD guy would probably get tied up and nailed on the way out.

[eXcessiveForce]

You are incorrect, some systems of TKD do have foot work. Even olympic tkd has foot work it is just different that boxing.

A school may not teach foot work but that does not mean it does not exist. That is a flaw in the instructor.

[gabbah]

I've seen plenty of people go down from leg kicks.

I've dislocated a few peoples knees in sparring and they dropped very quickly. lucky no serious injuries. And this was light contact.

Were they standing to much sideways when you legkicked them? I can see how the leg can bend akwardly then.. ouch.

But if you do a proper MT shin block, that shouln't be able to happen right? Please don't tell me they WERE actually using proper blocking when that happened!