Olympic sparring questions. Curious

[tkd_person89]

1. After somebody gets a hit/point is the fight broken up, or is it continuous?

2. Do Olympic fighters have a lot of power in their shots?

[Maxx]

I've competed once in WTF Olympic Rules. Didn't like it but this is what I know about it:

The sparring is continuous, they generally will not break you up unless someone falls down, there's pushing or some other infraction or breech of the rules.

The fights are generally full contact A shot to the body is generally worth 1 point and a kick tothe head is worth 2. There's a catch though. I may not be phrasing this right, but I believe to score a point, the technique has to hit with what is called "Trembling Shock"... in other words, you gotta rock your opponent to score.

If you watch any of the competitions you might be surprised to find out that a lot of the kicks that are thrown do not score points and punches almost never score... even if they are extremely hard. You almost have to knock a person down with a punch to score a point and that's assuming that you can get past the bias of judges.

[tkd_person89]

Lol they sound ... decent

Why didn't you like your experience, man?


Anyone else have input? I am not suggesting Maxx is wrong by any mean, but I have heard that judges in WTF comps. break you up after one point.

I definitely dont like that if that's true. But Maxx says it's continuous. Anyone else wish to contribute?

Yes... I am a Black Belt and I am quite dedicated to my art but up until now I haven't really been very tournmanet minded. I think I have a lot of time left to do those things, seeing as how I'm only 16 years old. I've participated in several tournaments, but I want to know about official WTF. Continuous or no?

[Maxx]

Wasn't properly trained for it. My TKD background is ITF and He Il Cho's AIMAA. Both systems are somewhat different from the WTF in that their competitions allow punching to the head and are much more similar to kickboxing.

WTF utilizes 90% kicks and about 10% hands. Because of this, their kicking abilities are very highly developed. I was dissappointed not just in the fact that I couldn't punch to the head, but also due to the fact that I couldn't hang with them based soley on my kicking ability.

The Two systems kicks differ in these ways:

ITF kicks generally tend to be sharper and have a very high level of precision.

WTF kickers tend to lok a bit sloppier, but the truth is that their techniques tend to be more relaxed and they practice a greater array of combinations and footwork.

Essentially, the ITF Training did not prepare me for a WTF Tournament.

[tkd_person89]

Most good taekwondo practitioners, however, regardless of ITF WTF GTF ITA ATA etc etc... practice hand techniques and hand strike combinations.

But talking about hands wasn't the issue for this thread. So can anyone confirm official WTF tournies are continuous? yeah they looked to be. but someone told me they aren't

[Dan Gun]

The WTF tournaments / competitions are fluent and continuous… in a martial art /sport sense, because if you (or your opponent) fall, exit the dojang, clinch or break a rule (like punch in the face, low kick, etc) the referee must stop the fight for a few seconds.

But if none of the above happens you can keep fighting, scoring points until the end of the fight or get a knock out.

By the way check the post http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=17868
about “Hardcore TKD video clips”… download the ones about the Olympic Games or the 1998 world championship to get an idea.

And about the power shots… Let me see… the basic training between ITF and WTF is not so different (I have a red belt in both federations), is the same art, just with different points of views, targets and applications.

So is not really like, ITF is more powerful or ITF is quicker…. In my humble opinion is the practitioner who can be more powerful, effective or faster…

I have seen more knockouts in WTF competition just because the “full contact” rules, but only because that. I’ve witness incredible techniques, ability and power in practitioners of both federations…

[eXcessiveForce]

There are two types of WTF tournaments. Ones that go by point sparring rules, which are generally broken up after a point is scored and olympic.

Point tournaments usually do not allow punching to the head, Although they do allow a strange head bop. Where you jump up in the air and do a hammer fist type strike to the top of the head. It's more annoy than anything. All strikes are worth one point. And contact is generally 1/3 power.

For olympic as Maxx said, they are looking for body jarring contact or a knock out. Master Choi a very well respected olympic fight trainer has the claim to fame of having never sparred anyone in competition without breaking something on them. I can't verify that though just what I have been told.

Due to low scoring potential of punches hands are dropped and blocking is almost non-existent. Instead they usually attempt evasion and will even turn and run away from the opponenet. Also they will run out of bounds to avoid being scored on. Rarely do they stand close to eachother and fight like you would see in boxing, or MMA or even a point sparring match.

I do not care for olympic sparring due to the bad habits that you pick up from training it. Although point sparring also leads to bad habits.

Also the chest protectors limit mobility which I think has lead to the lack of blocking as the arms just aren't as able to cover the target area.

The first time I saw olympic TKD was in the olympic festival the year it was added to the olympics. I was a part of the demonstrations of TKD for the festival and I was able to watch the olympic team do some fights. I was actually quite disturbed by what I saw. It is definitely a sport when done in the olympics and really does not bear any resemblence to traditional TKD.

Hope that helps.

[tkd_person89]

Olympics is also a martial art. A good olympic guy would probably make a good fighter.

So do you think WTF style sucks, then?

And some info you gave is wrong, such as your claim that people turn their back on their opponents and run. There is no such thing and I've never seen that done. That is frowned upon. If you turn your back, you LOSE a point.

And I've also never seen purposely run out of the ring... That'd be pretty sad to watch, but nope... never seen it thus far.

[eXcessiveForce]

Then you did not watch the olympics. I have seen it in many fights. So the information is not incorrect. It is used as strategy by some fighters as is falling down.

[tkd_person89]

Of course I watch the olympics.

You keep evading my question. Why?

Do you think WTF is a useless style?

[Dan Gun]

Not at all... WTF are not useless fighters... The main problem with the “score / point” fighting system that you find in the ITF is that teach you to fight you with 1/3 of your power, I tends to keep you tied with your possibilities, and your strength. So… is like losing a fight for eXcessiveForce (sorry moderator) is just funny to hear that in martial arts.

The WTF fighters have the custom to fight with full power (that is more necessary in a fight, than limit yourself because is a “sport fight”). Anyway, you keep thinking that WTF only train for sport and competition, and that’s not true. (O.K., is the main goal of lots of schools, but not all of them).

By the way… Dear Super Moderator: Where have you seen the “WTF point sparring competition”? The WTF only have one kind of sport sparring, and is the Olympic one. (Think about it… why fighting so hard to become an Olympic sport just to begin training other kind of sparring, it doesn’t make sense.) Check the WTF core rules and you will find that there is only one kind of sparring (and is full contact).

All of you are right about the use of punch in WTF sparring, is almost useless… they can hardly harm the hogu (chest protector) and the evolution of training and technique have teach to WTF fighters that they have to seek speed and sacrifice the blocking techniques.

I agree that training Olympic sparring (and any kind on “sport sparring”) generates bad habits, if you only practice that.

The main problem here is thinking that sparring and TKD (WTF or ITF) is the same… and is not, there is a lot more to learn from our great martial art.

[tkd_person89]

Yes I do think our dear Super Moderator is getting arrogant and cocky. I've tried to reach him numerous times via PM to talk calmly about matter but all I got was him ignoring me. I really don't like cocky people who claim to know everythign there is to know about the martial arts.

DAN GUN: You mentioned most WTF schools train for sport.... I got to tell you that you're dead wrong. A good WTF school will ALWAYS train for both sport and fighting/self-defense.

[Maxx]

I have to admit that a lot of the things the eXcessiveForce said about the Olympic fighting is true. I also have seen people run out of the ring, turn away from a competitor to avoid being scored upon (I believe you have to hit the colored strip the runs across the chest protector to score) and a lot of other little things. I remember specifically one guy getting chest to chest with me during a match with his arms spread out to the side like he was getting ready to hug me and trying to push me outside the ring. Something like that in a more realistic fighting sport would get you kneed or thrown. I think that's probably one of the things that I really didn't like about the competition. A lot of those guys knew that the first couple of times that they broke a rule they would only get a warning instead of a penalty or having a point deducted.

Thanks for mentioning those things, Excessive. I had forgotten that Sport TKD is as much about manipulating the rules as it is about actual skill.

[Dan Gun]

DAN GUN: You mentioned most WTF schools train for sport.... I got to tell you that you're dead wrong. A good WTF school will ALWAYS train for both sport and fighting/self-defense.

You are soooo right.... but NOT all the WTF schools are really good WTF (and therefore Tae Kwon Do) schools. Some of them are proudly members of our "beloved" Mc Dojans...

By the way... I'm a WTF and ITF member... so I don't really care about politics... what I really care and love is Taekwondo...

[Dan Gun]

Thanks for mentioning those things, Excessive. I had forgotten that Sport TKD is as much about manipulating the rules as it is about actual skill.

Sad but true....

(Metallica rocks on!)