Light and medium contact

[GranFire]

What's the point?

OK, having a crisis here (rank test tonight...I am nervous)

We only have light to medium contact. The up side is, w only have light padding, no chest guard, we can actually feel the impact (and sometimes, running in, it smarts! )

But what is the point? My friend and I sparred the other day, since she is a senior (age wise) and I am middle aged, I guess it looked bad when we turned it up some and really got moving - not a normal occurance, but it felt right.

WE didn't make any harder contact as usual...but the instructor called on us. (two snickering women right there)

Is there an up side to not practice harder contact? We do break boards a requirement, you can't fake that and have to go all out....

[kuk sool won]

some people just dont like to be hit, not everyone is participating for the same reasons. Its kind of strange that you mentioned it today as I too did some light contact sparring which is something of a rarity these days, i personally prefer more contact but these are just our preferences.

The benifits? You get to try out new combos and techniques in a relatively safe enviorment, defense becomes a bigger priority, and it improves your speed.

[brokenelbow]

I'd say if your school only has light to medium contact and you want more then it's time to move on.

[GranFire]

LOL, I might me a warrior woman, but I am aging and I am mortal - or in touch with my mortality. I get hurt I am up the creek without a paddle! So full contact is really not a smart thing for me (besides the options are slim!)


I was more wondering, if I where to get attacked, would I be able to handle myself, since we pretty much wave at each other. but since I got my tailed kicked by another senior from another school tonight...I guess we hit hard enough to make it out of a pickle - unless Mike Tyson causes the ruckus!

[brokenelbow]

The $64,000 question where you don't want to have the wrong answer. Getting attacked in the real world will not be like sparring in the dojang. There's a good chance that you won't we ready for it, that the attacker has picked you because they think they can beat you and they may not be alone. In other words they have the initiative and you don't. You might do OK anyway, but if you're interested in protecting yourself you may want to start looking for programs like Tony Blauer's, FAST or some others that are out there now. As an introduction check out Strong on Defense by Sandford Strong. It'll give you an idea of what you'll face in a bad situation along with what people actually did in those situations. Also the Gift of Fear is a must have. A large part of protecting yourself happens before the first strike is thrown.

[bmcgonag]

Practice the way you want to do it for real, all the time! I can't stress this enough, and I have to say, while it is not the smartest thing, I was trained, and prefer to train with minimal padding at full contact level.

Reasons:
It is important to know how it feels to get hit for real. To realize that you can survive it, and to reduce the shock from the first time it happens outside the dojang.

Why practice like it's real all the time?
Analogy: You work nights, and at 3 am every night you go to get your "lunch". You come to the same stupid red light everynight, never see anyone, and ease on through before it turns green. Now, you get moved to days, you go to get lunch, and there is that red light, you ease on through, and WHAM! That car that was never there at 3 am.

Practice makes permanent, but perfect practice makes perfect!

Best of luck in your endeavors!

Brian

[Blue Wave Gym]

you bring up a good point

Outside of mma,mt,kickboxing schools many instructors don't want hard contact sparring due to liability issues which sucks. Im my tkd school we would do light to medium contact. If you wanted to spar full gforce outside of classs after you became a black belt you could, usually just me and two others max but it was fun. In my opinion the hogu is worthless but fot pads should be worn who wants a bare foot in the face full force, if face punches are allowed then boxing gloves are a must. You should try to find a classmate to spar whwere you can with more force gradually turning up the heat untill you're going hard, have fun!!!!!

[Maxx]

I personally have a problem with the term "full contact". I think that with the majority of practitioners out there, particularly those without a great deal of experience, the term "Full Contact" equates to full power... meaning you are generating enough force to seriously injure your training partner. I have had several experiences where people would come in from other schools and were told by students that the contact level was full contact during sparring. Someone would always end up getting hurt because these individuals in question usually launched all out attacks against my students.

At that level it's no longer sparring. It becomes either a fight or a self defense situation. Egos get bruised, and in some cases injuries occur. Not good if you're running a business.

I always have my students agree to a contact level during a sparring session. It's an agreement between the two sparring partners. How hard do you want to go? 25%, 50% or 75%? That way everyone is relatively happy, injuries are minimized and there is always a level of restraint.

I just see a higher level of control using this method as opposed to just calling it "Full Contact" sparring.

[bmcgonag]

I just see a higher level of control using this method as opposed to just calling it "Full Contact" sparring.

I'm not saying to go at it without control, or to just brawl, I'm just saying that holding back the level of strike power is not, in my opinion, the right way to train.

If you mix train the students, then they will have more of an ability to adjust their levels on demand, but if you allow them to throw weak punches, kicks, and blocks (what I think of as 25%) then when they get out there and need to use it for real, that 25% is what's going to come out, and they are going to get hurt, and then they are going to be jaded, not against only you as their teacher, but against all martial arts because their training failed them.

This is exactly how martial arts and self defense gets a bad rep. People take it thinking it will be fun, and neat-o, and their instructors look at it from a business perspective of, "If I make this too hard on people they won't come back." That's fine, but give them fair warning up front that it is hard, and that you won't allow them to learn just enough to be a danger to themselves.

False confidence is an unnecessary evil.

Brian

[Maxx]

Depends on how you want to look at it. All types of sparring at all levels are useful if they are incorporated into a training program correctly. Sparring at only 25% allows the student to functionalize more tools and experiment more. where as the higher levels of contact test the student's ability to cope with stress and contact more. All of the students that I have had in the past have sparred at all levels of contact and the quality level I see from them in comparison to students from other schools is much higher, not only skillwise but functionally speaking as well.

Heavier contact does have it's place but it has to be integrate it with other training modalities and contact levels.

Something else to think about... Muay Thai. Muay Thai produces some of the most dangerous stand up fighers on the planet, but if you look at the way they spar in thailand you'd be shocked. The sparring is very light and relaxed... the number of injuries is very low during sparring. They do it to develop skill and flow. Plus, since most the the fighters end up fighting once every week or two, they can't risk injuring themselves during training.

[brokenelbow]

And how often does the average guy in a dojang go 75% to all out?

To use what GranFire said, only as an example,
"I was more wondering, if I where to get attacked, would I be able to handle myself, since we pretty much wave at each other. but since I got my tailed kicked by another senior from another school tonight."

You have to ask yourself, can I hit a person of at least my size hard enough for them to be effected, target the strike effectively while moving and lastly what kind of hit can I take without folding like cheap lawn furniture under a fat guy. If you can't answer any of these questions then you need to go a little harder every once in awhile.

[Tom Yum]

I'm not saying to go at it without control, or to just brawl, I'm just saying that holding back the level of strike power is not, in my opinion, the right way to train.

If you mix train the students, then they will have more of an ability to adjust their levels on demand, but if you allow them to throw weak punches, kicks, and blocks (what I think of as 25&#37 then when they get out there and need to use it for real, that 25% is what's going to come out, and they are going to get hurt, and then they are going to be jaded, not against only you as their teacher, but against all martial arts because their training failed them.

This is exactly how martial arts and self defense gets a bad rep. People take it thinking it will be fun, and neat-o, and their instructors look at it from a business perspective of, "If I make this too hard on people they won't come back." That's fine, but give them fair warning up front that it is hard, and that you won't allow them to learn just enough to be a danger to themselves.

False confidence is an unnecessary evil.

Brian

I like your philosophy, Brian.

Most gyms that I've trained at in the last 5 years keep the level at 50% or higher, depending on the scenario. If I'm training with a 120-lb woman, newbie I don't even attack - instead I let her beat me up.

If its a new guy and he's in my size range (160-200) and he's athletic, I'll go 50% in terms of power, but maybe 70% in terms of speed. I may even let him hit me square to see how hard he hits.

If the instructor asks me to help him prepaire a good fighter, I have to go all out and go into survival mode otherwise I'll get beat down and getting beat down is no fun...

[GranFire]

WOW! I never figured a simple question to evolve into a discussion on so many levels. (But then, simple questions are the most tricky)

I see the idea behind not going all out (we do supplement with bag work though) you do have a little more control...(I hit my friend with a toe right in the hollow point of the throat, when she was choking there for a bit scared me to death!)

do more things, not just your bread and butter technique. In a for real scenario, I don't think I'd go for the fancy footwork, but straight for the pressure points...but then, almost no one in my family was ever attacked and I am planning on keeping with this tradition, while one cannot avoid conflict, one can minimalize the possibility...

I have gotten hit, I hit in return. I know I can take a punch or two, but I guess what I failed to convey, the mental readiness, when I am in the Dojang, I know what I have to exspect. When I walk through the parking lot of - say - the mall, I don't look for trouble (though it is a favorable territory...)

But then again...judging from the instictive reaction of one of our kids, I might be OK: Dad startled son, who in turn flattened Dad with a kick to the 'Wedding Tackle' Dad was out of commission for 20 minutes. I would not retell the story if Dad himself had not told and retold it several times!

In all, I am OK with the contact we make in sparring. If I gt hurt/injured, I will be in trouble! I could be in a full body cast and my family would not find their way to my house to lend me a hand!

But I think, judging from the advancements my friend made, the most valuable part of Martial Arts for Selfdefense is not the actuall technique, but the general Mentality. It's OK to hit and to get hit. Yelling is part of the curriculum. It is so much fun to see the timid white and yellow belts blossom on the way through the ranks. Especially women!

I hope I made some sense here....

[brokenelbow]

When I walk through the parking lot of - say - the mall, I don't look for trouble (though it is a favorable territory...)

Granfire, I know what you mean, but change that to "I look for trouble" and you're now thinking pro-actively. It's kind of like looking for icy spots in the winter so you can avoid them. We've had a kidnapping of a female and some robberies in a high class mall, and the murder of a family in a good neighborhood. Also the parking lots of a big retailer is notorious for robberies. So don't fully turn off your awareness just because you're in a good place.
Keep one eye out for trouble and stay alert.

[GranFire]

I know. Last year or so the grocery store behind my house (very much right behind!) was robbed a couple of times, too.

I keep an eye on things (it's a mom thing anyhow! ) but I find myself to be not as ready - besides, the soccer mom's uniform shoe of choice is rather cumbersome in an emergency situation: Flipflops.... (but I can perform barefoot on asphalt! )

It's kind of weird, like watching yourself. I am a bit slow at times. Don't get me wrong, I have pretty good reflexes when we spar, but on the other hand, it has also taken years literaly for certain insults to sink in. When I an off, I am slow...and I keep wondering. Though, like tornadoes, if I live to be 100, I won't mind not going through it!