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Empty hand knife defense

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  • #46
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    • #47
      Is there a distinction between a well-trained FMA attacker with intent and that of, say, a prison shanker?

      It appears to me from what little I've seen that most knife based FMA's (Sayoc, Atienza, and Pekiti/Dekiti Tirsia) both consider thrusting to be the primary offensive movement, especially when the goal is to kill the opponent.

      Naturally, the FMA guy is going to probably have better fluidity in linking up strikes, and be much more accurate in poking into things like arteries and vital organs...

      But in a situation wherein a Kali guy really wanted to take somebody out quick in a face to face situation... don't you think that sewing machine mechanics would come out?

      What happened with the bouncer- one deep cut along the inside of the thigh? Stylish and impressive, but it goes against what I think would be the more natural movement.

      I guess it would also depend upon the weapon...if you have an ice pick type weapon, you're going to use it differently than a carpet knife type weapon.

      So wouldn't it be a function of the situation, and the tools given that would determine the nature of the attack...with the only advantage to the kali guy being a knowledge of anatomy and better angulation?

      I guess it's a moot point...whoever's at the other end is going to the er or the morgue in either case.

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      • #48
        I would think the big difference between the two would be in retention and tactics.

        I think the Kali person would be more likely to change tactics depending on how the attack progressed, more so than the con and also be more aware of possibly losing his weapon due to resistance.

        But that is just speculation.

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        • #49
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          • #50
            Go train in FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) to really defend against a knife..........
            If a person has a knife and knows how to use it you're screwed!!!! If you want to learn how to fight or defend with a knife learn FMA...........Most M.A. don't know how to defend against a real knife, If I'm wrong get into a fight knowing what you know and see what will happen.

            No one in the real world will ever lock out a blade, unless you're being stabbed.
            They will slice and dice you.........and then you're screwed...........

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            • #51
              Originally posted by jfjkd01 View Post
              Go train in FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) to really defend against a knife..........
              If a person has a knife and knows how to use it you're screwed!!!! If you want to learn how to fight or defend with a knife learn FMA...........Most M.A. don't know how to defend against a real knife, If I'm wrong get into a fight knowing what you know and see what will happen.

              No one in the real world will ever lock out a blade, unless you're being stabbed.
              They will slice and dice you.........and then you're screwed...........
              Yea, don't most FMA train with two knives at a time? One in each hand?

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              • #52
                Sometimes with a single blade, double blade, single stick, double stick, and blade in one hand/stick in the other hand........I love training in FMA.....I love the defang the snake principle..........

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by jfjkd01 View Post
                  I love the defang the snake principle..........
                  How would you explain that to a martial artist in another system; say Japanese?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Hardball View Post
                    How would you explain that to a martial artist in another system; say Japanese?
                    Defang the snake= Lets say a Rattle snake has no Fangs, He would'nt pose much of a threat would he.............

                    Let's say you have a knife and I have a stick. You slash at me, I would smash your hand, hence defang the snake. Odds are I would shatter the bones in your hand. You would never use your hand the same way again.

                    One thing you should never do EVER, watch the weapon A FMA person can swing a stick 100-130 mph. You would get hit for sure. Instead look at his arm, when he is swinging the weapon, it travels 10 times slower than the weapon, you'll have a better chance of survival.

                    Just hit the back of your hand lightly with anything, you will see how that would cause a lot of pain. That's a lot more effective than trying to trade slash or stabs at each other.

                    Odds are you would drop your knife, and grab your hand, and I would continue with what I thought would be necessary to end the fight.

                    Let's say that you have a stick and I have a knife, I would slice your hand. Defang the snake. Odds are you would drop your stick and grab your hand.

                    We also Defang the snake in hand-to-hand. We call them limb destructions. No matter what punch or kick comes at you, you would limb destruct. We don't worry about what punches are coming or what kicks are coming. We just look at the angles of attack. We use a 12 angle system. Most people only attack on 5 angles. This way you don't guess what the attack is.

                    There are hundreds of kicks and punches out there, you can't guess what is coming, but there are only a few angles that they could attack you with.

                    I hope this helps............

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                    • #55
                      Yea, that helps. Paul Vunak had a "Defang the Snake" article in Black Belt magazine over the summer--Actually, I like you explanation better than Vu's.

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                      • #56
                        I'm glad that I could help........

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by jfjkd01 View Post
                          ...I love the defang the snake principle..........
                          Originally posted by Hardball View Post
                          How would you explain that to a martial artist in another system; say Japanese?
                          While the Japanese like names of TECHNIQUES (jutsu) the principle is similar to oyagoroshi or "killing the father"...

                          Some techniques use thumb destructions to disarm while others rely on cutting connective tissue. The point is not to take the life. To render it harmless is more "humane" than decapitating the snake (serpent).

                          I thought it was a good question HB....

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                          • #58
                            Thanks, I try to contribute to discussions when I can. I'll rep you when I can.
                            Last edited by Hardball; 01-16-2009, 05:21 PM.

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                            • #59
                              Bump... input anyone (else?) Thanks all!

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