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  • Taekwondo kickboxing

    I think with the footwork of WTF TKD and kickboxing not necessarily from ITF but from kickboxing in general, taekwondo could become a dominant force in stand up marital arts. For this to happen I do not think that taekwondo has to create an official new style, I think a WTF school could keep their same format as far as forms are concerned and depending on the students they could either learn Olympic style sparring or full contact kickboxing sparring or both! Same with ITF and ATA these schools should adapt or get left behind. Kung Fu did it with SanShou or Sanda and Kyokushin fighters have that option as well just look at their presence in K-1! Besides WTF is on the brink of being kicked out of the Olympics and even if they are kicked out I think they will still be stubborn as far as the rules go. But lets look at Kenji Ozaki (WTF), Young Soo Park (WTF), Serkan Yilmaz (ITF), these fighters have a "traditional" background in TKD but have also branched out in kickboxing in order to put TKD back on the map. No TKD fighters have yet to take a belt home, but I think eventually once a fighter from the WTF is capable of keeping a solid guard, is able to take and give leg kicks while take kicks to the midsection, TKD could become a dominant force.

    What are your guys' thoughts? Those who teach TKD I would definitely like to hear from you because if I ever do teach TKD I would like to teach TKD sparring over WTF style.

  • #2
    I have a black belt in TKD and competed for many years in both WTF and ITF competitions. Honestly, I don't recall there being much of a difference in tournament fighting; the rules were very similar depending on who sponsored the tournament.

    One thing I noticed about TKD fighters is their bad posturing (hands down). I never fought this way, as I trained boxing before TKD. I used more of a boxer's crab (balanced stance). I trained TKD to get an understanding of kicking, because I didn't understand it well enough.

    I have to disagree with you on TKD's footwork; it's not very good. It's too fancy and should be minimized for maximum efficiency (the way it's taught anyway).

    What I did like about TKD was that it taught me to anticipate when I was getting kicked. Getting punched alot teaches you to defend and counter punches, just as getting kicked alot does the same.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by pstevens View Post
      I have a black belt in TKD and competed for many years in both WTF and ITF competitions. Honestly, I don't recall there being much of a difference in tournament fighting; the rules were very similar depending on who sponsored the tournament.

      One thing I noticed about TKD fighters is their bad posturing (hands down). I never fought this way, as I trained boxing before TKD. I used more of a boxer's crab (balanced stance). I trained TKD to get an understanding of kicking, because I didn't understand it well enough.

      I have to disagree with you on TKD's footwork; it's not very good. It's too fancy and should be minimized for maximum efficiency (the way it's taught anyway).

      What I did like about TKD was that it taught me to anticipate when I was getting kicked. Getting punched alot teaches you to defend and counter punches, just as getting kicked alot does the same.
      Yeah I don't spar with my hands down either, my first martial art was Kook Sool Won thankfully I haven't picked up on that bad habit. Sometimes I even use my shins to block kicks which isn't what WTF teaches at all. Anyway if you look at Anderson Silva's foot work in the last fight he had, that was TKD or TKD like. His switch stances, he even threw a double I agree there are some aspects of TKD that are fancy or necessary for Olympic TKD only however I think its effective if you know what to take and what not to take into a different ring. Especially when you implement the 2x2 open 2x2 closed, the strikes and counters that you can use when you understand these principles are extremely useful. TKD is great at closing and opening the gap and taking advantage of the distance game, incorporating the angles threw side stepping etc.

      Even though ITF and WTF have "similar rules" the fact that ITF doesn't allow hogus and is also allowed to throw punches to the head changes the game dramatically! Therefore these two styles of sparring can not be compared and I think that if WTF fighters threw out the hogu and adopted head shots, TKD would be creating a whole new monster to stand up striking.

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      • #4
        sorry but i completely disagree.

        I personally believe that TKD needs to regress back into it's original state, back when it was a force to be reckoned with.

        now days TKD is just so watered down i'm embarrassed to say that I am a black belt in it. I have been doing a traditional TKD blend for some years now and I have a black belt in wtf as well. I have been trained in traditional TKD for some years as well.
        I have competed in WTF competitions and other full contact competitions and I must say it's pretty dangerous to use WTF or ITF in other full contact comps due to tkds poor foot work, bad stance, terrible guard, incredibly bad hand work and no matter what almost every tkd exponent thinks tkd in general cannot kick. big flashy kicks that you can see coming or quick in-effective multiple kicks.

        i mean no dis-respect to any TKD guys that may read this. and I will not hide behind a keyboard either, if you wish to come and see what I mean, I do run classes here in sweden, so any swedes or any one coming to sweden can come and join my class for a day and learn what I am talking about (not fight I do mean learn in a friendly enviroment)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Movement View Post
          sorry but i completely disagree.

          I personally believe that TKD needs to regress back into it's original state, back when it was a force to be reckoned with.

          now days TKD is just so watered down i'm embarrassed to say that I am a black belt in it. I have been doing a traditional TKD blend for some years now and I have a black belt in wtf as well. I have been trained in traditional TKD for some years as well.
          I have competed in WTF competitions and other full contact competitions and I must say it's pretty dangerous to use WTF or ITF in other full contact comps due to tkds poor foot work, bad stance, terrible guard, incredibly bad hand work and no matter what almost every tkd exponent thinks tkd in general cannot kick. big flashy kicks that you can see coming or quick in-effective multiple kicks.

          i mean no dis-respect to any TKD guys that may read this. and I will not hide behind a keyboard either, if you wish to come and see what I mean, I do run classes here in sweden, so any swedes or any one coming to sweden can come and join my class for a day and learn what I am talking about (not fight I do mean learn in a friendly enviroment)
          Hey what part of Sweden do you live in? Close to Malmo?

          Anyway I agree with most of your views, unfortunately WTF is more of a game rather than a self defense. But if you take a look at Anderson Silva's style, you can tell he has a TKD background but he takes those elements and applies them appropriately. For example the switching stance, spinning back kick, I've even seen him throw a cresecent kick (I don't think its a useful kick myself...) the double kick some call it the chicken kick with the left round followed by the right round. Slide step and step footwork... all of these I think can be used as well as the axe kick. With the kicks all that needs to be modified is the use of more shin vs instep which is what I am learning to do in my Muay Thai class. Those in my opinion are the only valuable skills that can be taken from WTF TKD everything else is useless like the guard being low, something Young Soo Park can't get over, the other thing TKD fighters in K-1 have not adopted is body conditioning, the inability to take a leg kick or punches to the face etc. Flashy kicks...most style besides Muay Thai has flashy kicks from what I've seen, you just see it more in TKD in demos but that doesn't mean that you should throw them in a real fight or competition for that matter if anything in the last K-1 max Final 8s I've seen three fighters do that flip kick, which to me is as flashy and useless as a 720 or whatever. I agree with you on somethings but there are some things that can be taken from TKD and utilized in a person's kickboxing game.

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          • #6
            actually i have a school based in gävle city

            elements yes of course can be used but that isn't directly related to TKD been that the base elements of all martial arts are exactly the same or have the exact same principals

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Movement View Post
              actually i have a school based in gävle city

              elements yes of course can be used but that isn't directly related to TKD been that the base elements of all martial arts are exactly the same or have the exact same principals
              Kinda agree, the foot work since TKD footwork is totally different from Muay Thai. You train in anything else?

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              • #8
                i'm training mainly in grappling right now as i'm running an mma school and my backgrounds in stand up.

                but pick a style theres a good chance i've had something to do with it in the past 20 years

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