The Tae Kwon Do Thread... Your thoughts.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Holy cow Great Sage, this is a great thread! I'm impressed (and suprised)

Keep it up!

Spanky

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I don't think it is the techniques it has that poses the problem here, it is the lack of some others, like not being allowed to sweep or to punch to the back, the moment the back of the body is no longer a valid target, it becomes a sport

I've found that a lot of ITF TKD fighters tend to fight sidewards, this way if you make a roundhouse you would be hitting the back( or the block) and that's not allowed , so could cost you points
Result for the opponent is that he/she only has to watch the frontleg because the backleg will take too long to reach target

[falcon3624]

How can you say that TKD was not created in a country that was always at war?

As far as I could remember TKD and TSD were names that they made for MA's that were based off Okinawan shorin-ryu and goju-ryu. I thought that the Korean people learned shorin-ryu and goju-ryu to help them defend against the Japanese and then later the styles were changed to make them more unique and they were given new names.

[Lizard]

But you must not forget Tae kyon, an ancient korean art that was around before karate. Was probably based on northern styles of kung fu.

However a lot of karate moves were included in tae kwon do I think it was because korea was occupied by japan.

Tae kwon do is probably a mixture of Tae kyon and karate.

[falcon3624]

Well, I knew there were older Korean MA's but I thought that when Japan was after Korea alot of the people there moved to Okinawa to learn shorin-ryu and goju-ryu so they could fight off the Japanese. This also raises the question about why they did not use there own arts instead of going to Okinawa to learn karate.

[Lizard]

Well if that is true then it suggests that the koreans believed that japanese karate was superior in some way to old korean MAs and also superior to okinawan karate. Japanes karate was designed so that it could be learnt fast and used to disipline troops. perhaps that is what the koreans wanted.

[eXcessiveForce]

It is possible and even probable that Tae Kyon did play some role in the development of TKD.
TKD was the formalized name given to a system that was created from all of the fighting styles of Korea in 1955 by General Choi. From there Taekwondo splintered into many groups throughout the world. WTF became the recognized system of South Korea and ITF the System of North Korea.

Great Sage does not seem to know the history of korea as a war torn country that was occupied by japan and later drove them from Korea.

Also Korea has moved TKD from martial art to sport by design. There are other groups who have disagreed with this and moved away from this path.

In TKD it is possible to find many influences in it's creation. While studying I have found techniques from Silat, Kali, Aikido, Karate, Kung fu, and most notably for this board Muay Thai. (infact all muay thai techniques are contained in the system of TKD I study although they is not as much emphasis.)


As for kicking. Great Sage you do not seem to take into account the reasons for different types of kicking.

Muay Thai kicks are generally for meaty surfaces such as the thigh they use the principle of the Fluid shockwave. This has a great amount of power as it uses "time on contact" and "total body rotation" to generate power and deliver that power to muscular targets. It can be used to other targets but injury may develop if a hard surface is hit. (look at retireds broken leg) This is because the engery is transfered to the target slowly and thus some of the engery rebounds into the striking tool. If the target is harder than the bone in the strike the bone will break.

Snap Kicks use the principle of impulse shockwave This is the rapid release of energy into a target and then pulling out of the striking tool. Used for boney surfaces. Their is little energy rebounded to the striking tool because the "time on contact" is greatly reduced. (for instance breaking boards without following through the target. Touch the edge of the board and the board shatters.)

Each type of kick is Taught in TKD (not in WTF)

Having been in TKD for over 20 years I find Muay Thai kicks telegraphed and slow yet very powerful and useful for large opponents. They can be made to be relatively quick if practiced enough but often seem to fail against good foot work. If A Thai kick fails to hit its target it also seems to leave the person exposed to an attack to the back.


Problem with Impulse kicks is they are used incorrectly, thrown at targets without assessing which method of striking would be effective for that area.

Snap round kick to the thigh is likely to fail. Thai Kick to the Thai likely to do much more damage.

Thai kick to the chest likely to knock an opponent over and wind them or even break a rib. A side kick if targeted is more likely to damage internal organs or stop the heart. ( I have seem a side kick stop the heart)

I prefer to throw my snap kicks from a foward knee strike position. Then I have the choice of throwing my front kick, side kick, round kick, crescent kick from the same chamber. People tend to try to block the knee which leaves the head mostly ungaurded. But there is little need to emphasis chamgering since if done correctly is rarely a telegraph in real use at a high skill level. For beginners it is very telegraphed.

[falcon3624]

Originally posted by Lizard
Well if that is true then it suggests that the koreans believed that japanese karate was superior in some way to old korean MAs and also superior to okinawan karate. Japanes karate was designed so that it could be learnt fast and used to disipline troops. perhaps that is what the koreans wanted.

If they thought Japanese martial arts were superior then why would they want to learn Okinawan?

[junglist]

i think TKD is a complimentry art to have. the kicks are devasting, but if the gap was bridged so as the legs become ineffective then its game over

[Toudiyama[NL]]

the Korean theory on why the forms are the same is totally different from what written history proves us
The koreans claim they influenced the japanes much earlier but then how come that Karate came through Okinawa and wasn't spread all over Japan way before 1922?
Why only forms from the Shorinstyle ( from which Shotokan came)
Why did TKD emerce after WW II? why do TKD forms look so much like early Shotokan ( look at pictures of the founder Funakoshi Gichin)
Koreans made Judo into Yudo just to make it less japanese, these two nations never have been the best of friends in the past
In the japan Korans were considdered second rate people
Matsutatsu Oyama is a Korean that took on a japanese name

imho the japanese tried to japanize korean society during their occupation as they did in shanghai ( no dog and chinese allowed in parks)

[mr. bond]

tons of excellent points on this thread.

gracieaustin, very much in agreement with you about the variations between schools. however, i think that everyone ignores the differences between students, and their focuses on what they want to get out of TKD. lots of variations in one school. as for point sparring, it may be crap technique-wise, but at least it gets you used to a resisting opponent who wants to hit you-hard.

eXcessiveForce brings up the very important point of different situations and targets requiring a variety of kicking techniques.

but let's not forget that it's not all about the kicking. that's TKD's strength, but it has a lot more to teach you.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

In a sense TKD is a MMA

[Ghost]

I find the thought that the Thai kick is slow to be laughable. You obviously have only seen novice fights. The Thai kick is at least as fast as theTKD kick, i shall try and find some video clips on the net and post the addresses to back this up.

[falcon3624]

Originally posted by Toudiyama[NL]
In a sense TKD is a MMA

If it is........it's the worst one I've ever seen

[Ghost]

Init!