an effective school

[cygnus_tree]

i have a similar question to the last poster, but i am more informed about the different styles i wish to ask about.

I have studied a number of martial arts of drastically different types, but none for very long . I generally quit and looked into another form once i had gotten the idea of the art and its capability. I really want to pick a style and stay with it, but before i commit years of my life to it, i want to make sure it is what i want.

i am also basically looking to get peoples answers to the terribly stupid question "what is the best martial art".

in effect i like the fluidity and philosophy (not necessarily the actual teachings, but the integration of a philosophy into the art) of aikido, i don't like Americanized self defense or tournament fighting arts, as i couldn't give a shit about the UFC, and dislike their lack of mental development. I do want something very effective in self defense and fighting though, and such tournament styles seem to be somewhat good at that, but i feel like a traditional martial artist who really understands his art would easily deal with an american kickboxer or the like.
I would really like an art with methods leading to the passive subdual of attackers , and ,kicking the shit of a few people at the same time ( might be hard to find). I was actually interested in ninjitsu, but from the sounds of it, it either exists only as a shitty extension of karate , or i would have to travel into the mountains of japan to learn it.


and last but not least i want a method that is tried and true so to speak, a system that regularly holds itself up against street situations and other martial arts.

I'm 18, 135 ish, and 5'7, i'm willing to do any amount of physical work and have any amount patience to attain what i need to.

( ive been considering wing chung, jeet kun do, and some softer traditional karate schools)

any and all help is appreciated, thanks. and

[cygnus_tree]

hapkido

hapkido, from what i have just read, seems to be a pretty good combination of stradegies and styles. Is it very effective? does anyone have any experience with it?

[Benjamin Dover]

You should master the art of breaking bricks....If you pile 10 bricks on top of another and call out which one you are going to smash then you will have mastered the mental portion of the martial arts...."I am going to break the 5th brick in AND it will shatter in a horizontal fashion".

Also, seek out Mr. Miyagi...Ralph Macchio still raves about what a great instructor he is.

[ryanhall]

in effect i like the fluidity and philosophy (not necessarily the actual teachings, but the integration of a philosophy into the art) of aikido, i don't like Americanized self defense or tournament fighting arts, as i couldn't give a shit about the UFC, and dislike their lack of mental development. I do want something very effective in self defense and fighting though, and such tournament styles seem to be somewhat good at that, but i feel like a traditional martial artist who really understands his art would easily deal with an american kickboxer or the like.

I would really like an art with methods leading to the passive subdual of attackers , and ,kicking the shit of a few people at the same time ( might be hard to find).

Sorry, but the art you want doesn't exist. Also, it is evident that you have less than zero knowledge of self-defense, fighting, and martial arts in general. Perhaps you would have been better served by sticking to something?

Also, mental development does not come from martial arts. Nobody can teach it to you, as it is internal and you have to understand it on your own. Martial arts is something that you do, it isn't who you are. Don't try to define yourself by the job you have or what 'style' you do or any nonsense like that. Having convictions and beliefs is good, but don't fool yourself into thinking that they come from wearing funny-looking clothing and waving your hands in the air.

[cygnus_tree]

right...

i suppose that breif paragraph vaugley mentioning my martial arts experience and my interest in certain styles was enough for you to determine my level of ability and knowledge of self defense. thinking you might Actually need to know something about my skill level first is completely silly.

this was meant more as a survey than anything else. I started researching schools again last night and found this site, after reading a lot of uninformed banter i decided to take part in it. I'm mainy just looking to get experienced practitioners to tell me about their art. ignoring the "which is the best" question was insinuated

"mental development does not come from martial arts. Nobody can teach it to you, as it is internal and you have to understand it on your own. Martial arts is something that you do, it isn't who you are. Don't try to define yourself by the job you have or what 'style' you do or any nonsense like that. Having convictions and beliefs is good, but don't fool yourself into thinking that they come from wearing funny-looking clothing and waving your hands in the air."

Did i say any of this? im just looking for an art that fits what i already am, Im not defining myself by it. martial arts that take mental and "spiritual" development into consideration however are not only more interesting to me but better connect the mind and body for effectiveness in conflict.....yeah and other than that im really not sure where you pulled that last paragraph from.


thanks for the help. im sure your predictalbly insecure reaction to my insinuating traditional martial arts might be more effective than modern arts was much more usefull to me than a reasonabe explanation of your opinion would have been.

[Sean Dempsey]

Re: right...

Originally posted by cygnus_tree
thanks for the help. im sure your predictalbly insecure reaction to my insinuating traditional martial arts might be more effective than modern arts was much more usefull to me than a reasonabe explanation of your opinion would have been.

Take your intellectual masturbation somewhere else. And throw a fucking comma in there somewhere.

[kengar]

It would be good if you could tell us what you have access to, that way we don't speculate and waste yours and our time writing about something you don't care about. What are the choices around you?





Ken

[osopardo]

I guess the problem is that you seem to be trying to find several different things all neatly wrapped up in one neat package that will be a reflection of your personality, likes, dislikes, etc. and whenever you go for the "package deal" there's bound to be something missing or something you may not want.

Some of the participants of this forum are experienced (and by that I mean experience and proficiency that comes from years of study) in several different arts. This should indicate to you that the search is always ongoing and individualized and that the kind of fit you're looking for is not easily found. This has lead some individuals to develop their own curriculum which may include several different styles and may even include non-martial studies such as philosophy, art, logic, healing arts, etc. To do that you must sometimes find diverse sources of information. Do a lot of reading. Do a lot of asking.

As for finding an "effective" self defense system, it's not necessarily the martial art that makes the difference, but the guy doing it (or as ThaiBri would say, "it's not the fight of the size of the dog...").

On the upside, you're young, apparently intelligent and your heart's in the right place, so you might just achieve all these goals. But there really is no simple pat answer.

[cygnus_tree]

haa...that was pretty funny...

sorry, run on sentences is pretty much how i respond to asses(,) if i do at all.

i have access to pretty much anything. and if i don't, ill move. Not many goals in life mind you.

[cygnus_tree]

thanks.

yeah i'm well aware that its more the individual than the art. If an art was uneffective, it wouldnt really be around. Ive basically read at least a little on every practiced martial art available in the states now, and have come to the same conclusion, im going to need to meld what works for me together from different styles..

[ryanhall]

Ospardo,

As for finding an "effective" self defense system, it's not necessarily the martial art that makes the difference, but the guy doing it

While this is true, there is no doubt that the method does matter, and can matter a lot.

sorry, run on sentences is pretty much how i respond to asses

So I'm an ass, eh?

Well allow me to retort:

martial arts that take mental and "spiritual" development into consideration however are not only more interesting to me but better connect the mind and body for effectiveness in conflict

More interesting to you, fine. Now explain to me how a deeply spiritual martial art is somehow more effective in combat? Where does this gem come from?

thinking you might Actually need to know something about my skill level first is completely silly.

Well, being small, eighteen years old, and having only minimal martial arts experience would speak volumes about your level of skill, naturally...

I generally quit and looked into another form once i had gotten the idea of the art and its capability.

You leave after you have an idea of an art's 'capability'? And, presumably, before you have gained any sort of skill in said art.

If an art was uneffective, it wouldnt really be around

You might want to think again on this one. And the word is 'ineffective' Have you been to English class lately?

I do want something very effective in self defense and fighting though, and such tournament styles seem to be somewhat good at that, but i feel like a traditional martial artist who really understands his art would easily deal with an american kickboxer or the like

This would be because traditional martial artists beat the hell out of combat athletes all the time in tournaments... By the way, I am not suggesting that tournaments come close to accurately representing real world violence, but most traditional arts and instructors don't teach you how to fight in full-contact tournaments, and definitely do not have a grip on 'street' violence and confrontations.

I would really like an art with methods leading to the passive subdual of attackers , and ,kicking the shit of a few people at the same time ( might be hard to find)

Belief in 'kicking the shit' out of multiple opponents says all that is necessary about your level of actual experience.

i don't like Americanized self defense or tournament fighting arts, as i couldn't give a shit about the UFC, and dislike their lack of mental development

In terms of mental development, it takes a hell of a lot more mental toughness and dedication to become a champion athlete than it does to be skinny and wear a dress pants while practicing Aikido. All the philosophy in the world has nothing to do with actual combat. Also, the mental aspects contained in trad ma's that you allude to have nothing to do with actual combat.

You want to be able to defend yourself? Go here:
www.senshido.com --big on the REAL mental aspects of self-defense and real-world combat
www.sammyfranco.com --similar to
www.geoffthompson.com --UK self-defense instructor
www.peterconsterdine.com --former UK full-contact karate champion
www.gutterfighting.org --WW II combatives site

All of these guys are extremely knowledgable, experienced, and skilled. I and many others who know self-defense highly recommend them.

[adacas]

Lets see here you are looking for the ultimate martial art that works out for you...hmmm. Sprititual you say...passive yet able to take out multiple attackers you say...hmmm. From what I see you are going nowhere buddy. You are looking for the lockness monster. If you are going to meld then meld away. In fact create your own art and set up your own line of schools. Get a bunch of students and teach them your great new martial art and have them go out and start making challeges in the street like the Gracies and have every one of them get killed for all of the useless crap you put into their heads. I doubt you were able to come even close to researching even half of the martial arts in the states dude because everytime I blink I find a new one. Your knack for dropping out of schools seems like you have a problem with the training or something. If I were you I would stop looking at the art as the problem and probably start looking at yourself as the reason why you can't commit. I'm may not be so exposed to the outside world as far as martial arts diversity as many of the other guys here but I can tell you that what you are looking for is damn near impossible. Its a needle in a a bunch of massive haystacks and you are looking in the wrong pile.

[FUH-Q]

you may want to try brazilian jiu-jitsu; it is highly effective and it is called "the gentle art".

on a side note, if your going to train a style, train an effective one like those you see in mixed martial arts tournys. if you want phillosiphy, take a class at a college, thats a much more effective use of your time and money.

btw, you should maybe start paying attention to the ufc and pride, the only people that win those tournaments are the ones that use effective styles, and very few of them only use one style.

your comment about if an art wasnt effective it wouldnt be around is way off, there are tons of tai kwon do and other various BS "arts" thriving today only because people just want to pay for a black belt.

[IPON]

I do think there are some issue here interms of realism. I don't know how long you have studied the "other styles" but assuming even a few months, you may have an overall understanding of the philospohy and how the art is practiced in the kwoon/dojo/dojang but I do not see how you could have absorbed a vast understanding of the different styles. I think overall committment is needed

No offense, but you state that "i'm willing to do any amount of physical work and have any amount patience to attain what i need to" easy top say hard to do. You also state that you would move just to train and that you have no goals......I think this is where you are having frustrations. You need to be more centered IMHO it alsmost seems that you want the MA to provide ambition.


Anyway these are my suggestions:

Hapkido
Japanese Jujitsu (but you have to shop around for right school)
BJJ or Judo (very limited striking and kicking but the other techniques make up for it)
Wing Chun
JKD is OK (I am not a fan of the system and I studied it)

Ninjutsu here is the best training

http://www.realultimatepower.net/

If none of these are helpful I would stay in your room, get high, and watch MTV all day until your electricity is turned off and you are evicted....while homeless, you may be able to see the need for having goals in your life

[FUH-Q]

"If none of these are helpful I would stay in your room, get high, and watch MTV all day until your electricity is turned off and you are evicted....while homeless, you may be able to see the need for having goals in your life"

dude, that changed my life.........im dropping out of college and all MA training to conserve money for that sweet ganja. i cant wait to find my motivation in life. holy cow, thats gonna be a lot of cannibus tho, good thing im not too far from humbolt county.

hehe, seriously tho, that was funny.


OMFG.......that ninja site may be the funniest thing ive seen all week.....again, thank you. wow, for a second i thought you were serious, then the big pimpin music kicked in and i almost fell out of my chair.