Going to the H.S. Wrestling Tryouts....

[IPON]

Originally posted by Bjjexpertise@be
here are my latest problems:
1)I cant takedown without them sprawling.
2)Lack of knowledge on wrestling moves.
3)head pull driving me mad.
4)For some reason i can't sprawl fast enough
5)Goddang i can't fit a takedown in AAAAA

BJJ - First you have to cut yourself some slack, you have been wrestling for about 2 weeks. I know it is frustrating, but the general answers to all of your questions are experience. Just focus on the techniques and training and next season kill'em.

Was this wrestle-off for JV or Varsity?

Here is my take on your questions:

1. Just like MA, you have to be conscious of telegraphing your move, that's what is happening with your TDs. Because you are not that comfortable with it, yet it is probably not a fluent motion. I know you studied BJJ but wrestling TDs are more complete. Also, your TDs may not be that bad but against a trained eye and reaction time from the other guy can be frustrating and make it seem worse than it is. Key: Experience Experience!!
2. Experience Experience!! Just like BJJ you didn't know the moves at first. Just focus on learning. Focus on 2-3 TDs, cradles etc and master them. Also know yourself are you very strong for your weight or below average, this can make a difference in the moves you decide are good for you.

Here are 2 references:
"winning Wrestling Moves" by Mark Mysnyk, Barry Davis and Brooks Simpson

"On the Mat" by Dan Gable ( I think this is the name I can't find the book but I will get back to you)

I bought both books for my cousin and we practiced some of the moves in the first book it really helped him. I think I got them from Amazon or barnes and noble both are worth the investment if you are somewhat serious.


3. If I understand this semi lock-up. I used that all the time it frustrate s people and gives you the second you need to shoot. Pull forward he pull back you shoot. Push back he moves forward throw (headlock pancake etc) and for the fishes, I would just muscle to the mat (form lock up). But generally, you need to move, keep hands in front to prevent shooting and use arm drags

4. Experience Experience!! you have to develop reaction time. I would also use front headlocks and power half nelson (quarter nelson) as defenses. Of course a good old cross face and sprawl is very effective also

5. jubaji/Choy let me know if you agree with this. But I have found that while standup there are 2 types of wrestler Offensive or defensive. Yes all wrestlers can do both but I am referring to preference. So the defensive wrestler will wait for someone to make a move/mistake and counter. I was definitely very quick to shoot and get a TD, but I considered myself more of a defensive wrestler (I think because it saved energy, and my asthma was definitely an issue in the 3rd period sometimes). With that said, again, know your strength are you fast at a TD or reversing, just comes with experience. The key to a TD is penetration, e.g. when you shoot for a double, you don't get switch to single left, don't get it, go single right, back to double.
I do think the fireman's carry is not use as often as it should that could be your back up. Depending on your body type ankle pick can be really effective, I could never use them, but have been on the receiving end

My .02 Sorry for the long post

[jubaji]

Originally posted by choylifutrocks


My requisite information is that those are highly populated weight classes. Thus, competition is more intense.

This is illogical. You don't know that there are more competitors there and you don't know the quality of the competition.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

The thing about the double leg is that it is more strength based, either i'm not used to relying on pure strength yet or i'm not doing it right. once you get into position you are supposed to lift him straight of the ground, while your knees are on the ground, and drop him on his side and go for side control. But the thing is i found this move gets more and more difficult as their weight goes up and along with them flailing for escape, it's nearly impossible.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by choylifutrocks
Here is an example of how I think: 8-10% 5 to 7% bodyfat BF of 2% just to survive, and 12% . 12-8% under 12% BF.

Oh, man. You are really overreacting (and overthinking). Before you worry about bodyfat % and such remember a few things:
-you don't know where this fella is starting from
-you can drop 5+ pounds of water just by working out
-when you cut weight you don't live at that weight, you just have to be there long enough to step on the scale (have you ever cut weight?)
-He's gonna lose fat just by working out hard (are you gonna check his % and tell him to stop practicing?)
-3-4hours a day in the wrestling room, 5 miles of roadwork, plus a few hundred pushups and situps after he finishes his homework before going to bed and it is unlikely that anyone is gonna add weight. To do so would require measures at least as extreme as those needed to lose more weight than I recommend.

Let me say again---young people should not overdo it, but let's not get hysterical about it

[jubaji]

Originally posted by Bjjexpertise@be
The thing about the double leg is that it is more strength based, either i'm not used to relying on pure strength yet or i'm not doing it right. once you get into position you are supposed to lift him straight of the ground, while your knees are on the ground, and drop him on his side and go for side control. But the thing is i found this move gets more and more difficult as their weight goes up and along with them flailing for escape, it's nearly impossible.

A double shouldn't require so much strength. The penetration step requires quickness and positioning more than anything else. As for the finish; have you only been shown that one finish? There are loads of ways to finish a double.

You may be more comfortable with a step-through. When you make penetration, quick as hell, bring your following leg up and hook it behind your opponent's leg (the one that will be opposite it). This must happen fast enough that you maintain momentum from the shot itself. As your shoulders move forward against his legs (with your hips right up against those knees!) and your following leg trapping one of his supports, he will fall back. You need to transition to a cover right away (don't let him get away!). You may end up in something like a mount (but I don't recommend that position). Speed and momentum are key here.

BTW, the troubles you've mentioned with the heavier guys may be a reason to take my advice about who you work with at this point.

Now, with any double, you will have a hell of a time finishing if you don't get a deep penetration step, get your hips right up on his legs, and get a good grip on those legs. Try this: When you get in on the legs, secure your hands at the knees and squeeze your elbows in (if you can actually lock your hands, so much the better). Pulling in at the knees will take away his base, and the knees don't have a lot of strength so you should be able to move them around even on a strong fella. Remember to finish as quickly as you can. Every second you are there and not finishing improves his odds of countering you. Get in and get it done asap.

Keep your shoulders slightly rounded forward (this doesn't mean 'lean' forward) and your neck 'bulled'. Once you are in, don't straighten your back so much that you are vulnerable to a pancake or such.

There are many, many other ways to finish the double, but we'll get to those later.

Good luck!

[jubaji]

Originally posted by IPON


jubaji/Choy let me know if you agree with this. But I have found that while standup there are 2 types of wrestler Offensive or defensive. Yes all wrestlers can do both but I am referring to preference.

I agree. I believe this holds for matwork as well as stand-up. I don't think its such a physical thing as a personal preference.

I was (and still am, I suppose) the most boring wrestler in the universe to watch. Defense,defense, defense with the occasional burst of foolish risk-taking.

[IPON]

I agree. On the mat I was defianately a leg wrestler, I would throw legs in a second for back points/pin.


BJJ I found the other book actually 2 more (I haven't even looked at these books but I think they would be interesting for you.)

"A Season on the Mat Dan Gable an the pursuit of perfection" by Nolan Zavoral

" A basic Guide to wrestling" US Olympic committee

[bvermillion]

weight classes

the weight classes are as follows: 103, 112, 119, 125, 135, 145, 152, 165, 171 (what i wrestled), 189, 220, and heavy weights which i think was 275

[bvermillion]

3)head pull driving me mad

this is what i was talking about when i referred to heavy hands. My advice was to after the initial pull instead of continually pushing down look at it as a palm strike and position your hand in that fashion. And make it hurt.

[IPON]

Re: weight classes

Originally posted by bvermillion
the weight classes are as follows: 103, 112, 119, 125, 135, 145, 152, 165, 171 (what i wrestled), 189, 220, and heavy weights which i think was 275

This is teh weight at the begining of the season, I think it drops a few lbs.by mid season to alow people to loose weight.

[IPON]

Originally posted by jubaji

Let me say again---young people should not overdo it, but let's not get hysterical about it

Yeah I agree, I think the message is no plastics (if they are still allowed) during practice no need to try and loose 12lbs of water in practice and starving along with it. I knew this wrestler cut weight then beinged (sp??) gained 22lbs I am not lying he was at 122 (barely weighed in) then 140 the next day I couldn;'t believe it when I saw the scale

[bvermillion]

This is teh weight at the begining of the season, I think it drops a few lbs.by mid season to alow people to loose weight.

not where i wrestled it was the same all year. and yes no plastics was the rule but they are definately still used

[choylifutrocks]

Originally posted by jubaji


This is illogical. You don't know that there are more competitors there and you don't know the quality of the competition.

Ok, let's make a deal...from now on, we'll both avoid circular reasoning

As far as my nutrition advice goes, I'm not budging. LOL. I know that if he becomes too lean, and engages in strenous aerobic activities, i.e. wrestling, his body WILL metabolize protein for energy. Where do we get that protein after 3 hrs. of aerobic activity, muscle. Simple fact. That's why weightlifters like to keep things anaerobic [and fast twitch fibers are the ones that use Anaerobic respiration--they're the big powerful ones], because in anaerobic respiration, metabolizing protein cannot occur I personally think some aerobic activity is good, I do about 1 hr. 4 - 5 days a week, but I eat like hell--mostly proteins, with some carbs-- before and after. That gives my body the opportunity to burn through my food and fat, and not have to resort to muscle.

I just had this kid at my gym tell me about an exercise regimend to make his arms grow 2" in 6 wks. that he read in a Bodybuilding Mag. I told him to watch it because that's BS. He was a lean guy in the first place...6'0" 170 lbs. He trained arms 3X a week for an hour a day, and his arms shrunk 1/2" and he lost strength. Overtraining == metabolizing muscle. Those stupid magazines should realize that not everyone is on steroids

You're right, I don't know where he's coming from, but neither do you. If I can't tell him to sustain weight, then you can't tell him to lose weight. He also can make his own decisions, so I won't keep rambling on about my nutrition obsession. [Eat like a pig, and don't forget your fats.]

[Bjjexpertise@be]

You may be more comfortable with a step-through. When you make penetration, quick as hell, bring your following leg up and hook it behind your opponent's leg (the one that will be opposite it). This must happen fast enough that you maintain momentum from the shot itself. As your shoulders move forward against his legs (with your hips right up against those knees!) and your following leg trapping one of his supports, he will fall back. You need to transition to a cover right away (don't let him get away!). You may end up in something like a mount (but I don't recommend that position). Speed and momentum are key here.

This is the double leg takedown i've been using since the one he showed me(the one where you sit up after you get your legs raound him) didn't work too well for bigger people. And i'm not planning on dropping weight, i think it's just stupid to do so.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by choylifutrocks

Ok, let's make a deal...from now on, we'll both avoid circular reasoning

Fair enough