ATTN: Joe "I used to be Pit Dog" Manco

[Water Dragon]

Joe,
I just bought a house and am looking for a dog to put in it. I'm considering an American Pit.

Here's my question: My wife and I both work so we need a dog that will be comfortable being by itself for most of the day. We have a fenced yard and a heated garage.

My wife wants a watch dog, which is one main reason I'm considering a Pit. The big thing is: I have a 4 yr old boy and a baby on the way. I know Pits are good with adults, but what about young children?

Thanks

[Mickey Finn]

They love young children. Just sauté them a bit and serve with a full-bodied red.

Seriously though, if you want a watchdog I would consider a different breed.

[Beatle]

Originally posted by Mickey Finn
Seriously though, if you want a watchdog I would consider a different breed.

I concur. It's well known that Pit Dogs make subpar watch dogs. Also, I would not trust a Pit Dog with my children, nor would I leave a fox guarding a hen-house. Get a Lab, it's a much better family breed.

[Joe Manco]

Hello Water Pistol:
Pit bulls are best NOT left alone, unattended, and free in a yard. They are also not the best watch dogs as they are too friendly generally. Depending on the INDIVIDUAL, they can be great or very dangerous w/ kids. Generally, your mellow types are the best w/ kids. High-strung dogs w/ a lot of prey drive are motion/sound sensitive and can view kids as "critters" which is where tragedy occurs. Simply put, a bulldog is too much of a dog for someone who knows nothing about them.

If I was you I would get the old staple of a German shepherd for a guard dog. (Uh, insect ... labs suck as guard dogs, they're too gentle and trusting. That's why they lead the blind for Chrissake.) If you want a guardian Mr. Dragon, buy a fully guard-trained, child-familiar German shepherd and take it from there.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Water Dragon]

Joe,
Let me rephrase here. I'm not looking for a guard dog. I'm looking for a family pet that is somewhat protective and will defend my family if need be.

I also plan on keeping the dog in the house with the family when we're home. However, it will be alone about 8-9 hrs ad ay and some breeds are OK with that and some can't handle it.

I've also heard a lot of positives about the whole bulldog family and some negatives about shephards and rotts.

[Oberleutnant]

From personal experience, I can highly recommend Doberman's-excellent guard dogs & family pets. However, in the US during past episodes of popularity, much inbreeding occured tainting much of the Doberman lineage ending up with very non-aggressive, passive types. Overseas this isn't very common; however in the US, the passive, non-aggressive types due to inbreeding are very frequently occuring unfortunately. Try to get an AKC certified one to minimize the risk if possible, although it won't eliminate it.

[Zeke]

Water Dragon, if you are determined to get a Pit Bulldog, learn as much as you can about the breed before you buy. Pit Dog gave excellent advice, a person should not get a Pit Bulldog unless he/she knows exactly what to expect. Read some of the breed books. The Stratton books(probably at your local library) are a good place to start. Visit some kennels and talk to some knowledgeable people about the breed. Don't buy a dog from the newspaper classifieds. Wait until you have learned something about the breed before you buy your dog. Many people buy a dog and when they learn more about the breed, they find that they have bought the wrong dog.

[Edited by Zeke on 11-23-2000 at 09:02 AM]

[Water Dragon]

Ober, I used to have a dobie. The thing is, right now my wife and I work and a doberman doesn't take well to being alone 8 hours a day. They also tend to get a bit too aggresive with people they don't know. Even when YOU invite the people in. I don't think a doberman would be a good choice for us right now. (or maybe we wouldn't be a good choice for the doberman. )

Zeke, I'm not determined to get a Pit. I was checking breeds out and a Pit was one of the breeds that kept coming up. Good watchdog, not OVERLY protective, excellent with children, not too big but still a good size dog. I think I'm leaning closer to an American Bulldog or a Boxer. But yes, I'm in the process of checking out the breeds. and if I get a Pit I found a good breeder in Ohio, if I get the Bull I found one in Illinois not too far from my house.

Anyone got any info on American Bulldogs or Boxers too?

[Joe Manco]

Water Pistol:

What makes you think pits like to spend 8 hours a day alone?

Of all breeds to be ignored and suffer from inadequate training/attention while left loose in a yard by a clown who won't put them on a chain ... and who will therefore be looking for a way "out" ... I wouldn't suggest this one.

If you don't have the time to devote to ANY dog, why get one? Or, if you "have" to have a dog out of an insatiable desire, then get TWO so they will have some company when you're gone. Boxers would be a fine choice for a pair of dogs, but leave pits alone.

I really don't think anyone but true dog men should have pit dogs, personally. Too much dog, seldom enough owner.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Water Dragon]

Thanks for the advice Joe, but...

I'm surprised at you. How can you suggest keeping ANY dog on a chain? Especially one that has the potential to do some serious damage if it becomes aggresive? You, of all people, should know the quickest way to make a dog mean is to chain it all day. I would have at least expected you to suggest a sturdy run with a concrete floor. A chain to a dog is like a jail cell to a man. Yes, you can be physically healthy, but it totally destroys what you were created for.

But back to the subject...
I'll definately check out the Boxers. I also think they are fine animals. I'm leaning less toward the Pits (even though you haven't given me a GOOD reason why they would be a bad choice in my situation), but would be interested if you have any info on the American Bulldog breed.

Thanks in advance

[Joe Manco]

Uh, Water Pistol ...

I have had between 10 and 40 dogs, ALL on chains, for ELEVEN YEARS now. I would bet a million dollars to a penny you have never even had ONE dog on a chain in your life. So please don't preach to me about a subject you clearly know nothing about.

The idea that a chain "makes a dog mean" is pure and utter bullsh!t. I have not one mean dog on my yard, and all have been chain-raised. What chains DO is ensure your bulldog will BE HOME when you get back from work.

Kennel run? LOL. Every kennel accident I have had was from a kennel run where PUPPIES would eat their way out and get in trouble ... and if ever there was a jail, a kennel is it. Dogs are MUCH happier on a chain and they have MUCH more room to run.

A standard 12' x 6' kennel gives a dog a mere 72 sq. feet of room ... and he has to stare at the world from behind a fence and be petted from a finger poked through the links.

A 10' chain on a central axis, by contrast, gives a dog 314 sq. feet to roam ... and you can walk right up and pet him.

For you to tell ME anything about dog raising is a joke of the highest order. I have forgotten more about dogs than you will ever know. Please, do yourself a favor and just LISTEN when I tell you something about a dog. Especially a bulldog.

You are not enough owner to have a bulldog ... THAT is why I suggest you get a boxer. As you are now, you are the type of owner who will let a bulldog get out with your candy-a$$ view of them ... and your dog will one day make it to the headlines. You cannot raise/keep a bulldog as if it is a lab. They are PIT dogs and they BELONG on a chain ... or on a leash ... or in the house. Simple as that.

Please, stick to wanting a boxer, do the pit bull breed a favor, and good luck.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Joe Manco]

Water Dragon:

Forgive my anger above. I get outraged when I hear of people WHO JUST DON'T KNOW talk to me about bulldogs. Let me instead tell you a true story about a dog of mine, in a non-offensive way, that will help illustrate my point (I hope).

I had to leave my dog Poncho at a friend's for a couple of months when he was just under a year old. I set up a chain and everything at the guy's house and paid for the feed. Well, he had several room mates and one of them decided it was "cruel" for MY dog to be on a chain ... and he let him off.

It took Poncho about a day to figure out he could jump an EIGHT FOOT FENCE ... but jump he did and was now a loose dog. It did not take the young Poncho long to run into another loose dog, and naturally a squabble ensued and Poncho's genetics kicked in and we now had a dead dog and a fully-started natural born killer standing over him.

Poncho proceeded to travel through the neighborhood WITH A KILL IN HIS MOUTH stopping every now and then to try and eat it. Naturally, animal control was called (and an article ultimately written in the local paper) ALL BECAUSE OF A BLOWHARD NOVICE WHO HAD NO IDEA WHAT HE WAS TURNING LOOSE!!!

Fortunately for Poncho, my friend picked him up and called me ASAP and I got the dog back before animal control did. Not having a place for him at the time, I had to take him to a boarding kennel. The fellow at the boarding kennel was nice, and I asked him if I could put him on a chain instead of a kennel. The man gave me a shpeel (not unlike yours) and told me that he'd "been doing this for 20 years, and his kennels were 'escape-proof'."

I explained that this was no ordinary dog, he was smart as a human, and was a for-real cannibal. I demanded that a lock be placed on any kennel because he could open doors and latches.

Well, within a week Poncho had broken out of THREE "professional" kennels and killed two inmates, plus the owner's mascot cat. The lock was left off by an attendant the first time, and he broke his way out the next two times.

By now, this man was ready to listen to me that Poncho was no ordinary dog and BELONGED on a chain, so we rigged a chain set-up inside the kennel.

Poncho was fine after that - and is laying on my couch an 8-year-old dog as I write. The dog has never bitten a human, or groweled at one, and has lived HIS WHOLE LIFE on a chain. He plays with my 4 year old neice and is totally gentle (to humans).

But the moral of this story, friend Water Dragon, is YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT PREPARED for a dog like this. You have no idea WTF you're getting, nor do you have a realistic perspective as to how to contain one.

Now, maybe you might get a more docile, less intelligent/tricky dog than Poncho ... but it would still be a pit dog of SOME SORT ... and as such would require special handling and quartering that you clearly have no intention of providing.

Please hear me when I tell you CHOOSE ANOTHER BREED!

But if you insist on getting one, scrap your kennel idea and become informed as to how to set up a PROPER chain rigging, collar, swivel, etc. and DO THE DOG RIGHT and take that mofo seriously.

Because if you don't, you will be doing the breed a disservice, yourself a disservice, and will be the author of a tragedy one day. And you will have no one to blame but yourself for not listening.

For real bro,

Joe

[shangchi]

Interesting posts on dogs!

Anyone with any opinions on Rottweilers?

[Alpha1]

Listen to Joe, he knows about the Pits. If you get a Pit you are an idiot.

[Joe Manco]

Well, I don't think WD is an idiot for wanting a bulldog, but he would be if he gets one and doesn't take the recommended precautions.

I would prefer to see him choose another breed and leave them to serious dogmen, but if he does get one then hopefully he will listen to what I have said.

Yours truly,

Joe