BJJ limitations

[chris davis 200]

Have you ever tried to throw a Judoka? It's not the number of throws, its how effective they are and how you practice them. The whole reason Judo was created was to have something you could practice full speed safely.

So go ahead and look down on 'sports' but when you tangle with one of them remember how much practice time they get at 100% when they are choking you out.

Man - i hold a dan grade in judo! i know what a judo ka can and cant do - i competed for 3 years very effectively.

I DO NOT look down on sports - its just that i have been there and done that and now dont feel the need to do it anymore - i said I (i repeat) I am not interested in combat sports - as in i am not interested in competing.

stop crying

cheers
Chris

[TylerDurden]

Who's crying? Just laying out the facts. If you know how effective Judo is than you know calling something a sport is just being ignorant and denying what's pretty plain. TJJ has nowhere near the effective throws Judo does. And its even more lacking on the ground. Small circle join locks are a nice theory, but try practicing one against a resisting opponent sometime. If you never have then you will most likely fail when trying to use it for real.

[chris davis 200]

and for the record - judo was created to keep the practice of martial arts alive in japan BUT mainly to provide children in schools a excersice regime that was purely Japanese.

Chris

[chris davis 200]

Who's crying? Just laying out the facts. If you know how effective Judo is than you know calling something a sport is just being ignorant and denying what's pretty plain. TJJ has nowhere near the effective throws Judo does. And its even more lacking on the ground. Small circle join locks are a nice theory, but try practicing one against a resisting opponent sometime. If you never have then you will most likely fail when trying to use it for real.

What are talking about! Small circle locks??? i think you are on about modern crappy Ju jutsu - Traditional Ju Jutsu has Koshi Nage's, Tai otoshi's etc etc as its core techniques! sure is has wrist locks etc but it also has JUDO throws - Judo comes from Ju Jutsu - dont you get it!

the wrist locks can be applied on the ground, on grabs etc - what do Judoka do most of the time - grab the gi - what counters a grab to the gi, manipulation of the grabbing hand/wrist. An important omission from Judo to allow competition.

Judo is not better at throwing in my experience - it is just trained more intently due to its sporting focus.

I love Judo - i devoted alot of time to it - but i now train in other things because i though it was lacking many aspects.

As for Calling Judo a sport!! What would you call it??? It is a sport! a sport with a basis in Martial Arts - i would say the very best Judoka on the planet practice it as a sport.

Anyways.

Chris

[Thai Bri]

I only went to one traditional JJ club, so what I have to say is hardly representative of the entire art. It was part of a massive organisation however, and the other clubs were no better.

The TJJ that I studied was awful. It was based around total compliancy. The so called attacker would step forwards with a highly telegraphed punch, and then stand motionless. The defender would apply all kinds of airy fairy idiotic techniques on him.

Nonsense of the highest order.

[CKD]

Judo got popular by beating the major japanese tjj styles in Japan. As for takedowns in bjj. They are more important than you think. Statistics show that the person that scores the takedown win 90% of the time.

[spetnatz]

BJJ with its lack of emphasis on standup grapling is an incomplete grapling art, much like boxing is an incomplete striking art.It´s possible to be a very good grapler both on the ground and standing up, just as is possible for a kickboxer or karate man to strike very well with the hands and the legs. Emphasizing only ground grapling is like practicing only kicking in karate. Too narrow.

[duma20012001]

BJJ with its lack of emphasis on standup grapling is an incomplete grapling art, much like boxing is an incomplete striking art.It´s possible to be a very good grapler both on the ground and standing up, just as is possible for a kickboxer or karate man to strike very well with the hands and the legs. Emphasizing only ground grapling is like practicing only kicking in karate. Too narrow.

Just wondering by saying bjj is a imcomplete art.....did u mean for self defense purposes or being incomplete compared to other forms of grappling such as wrestling? I just want to know is there a such thing as an complete art? I'm not trying to bash u or anything so please dont get defensive.

I'm just trying to draw a fine line between a person saying how let say jiu jitsu isnt complete with comparison to its effectiveness in battle........ Cause my first grappling experience was against a blue belt and i was a college kid who competed in powerlifting so i was strong and he put a whomping on me.


My point is we can all agree that their isnt acomplete art in the history of mankind. Its like saying someone is perfect.....nothing is perfect......so i think we need to focus on what arts is effective........

[guy incognito]

Im glad we are having this conversation.As opposed to the usual BJJ can f$$ck up everthing else and i can lift heavy objects above my head.I dont beleive any system is complete(Mine included).Im just wondering how a BJJ ist would fare against someone from aikido?

[chris davis 200]

Bri - yes i have been to these sorts of dojo's too. They are pure shite.

The TJJ i have done is based on instant responce to attacks, as they attack you counter - once - with atemi, throwing and stand up locking. them control further with one lock. This is a fluid process however - and if your first attack/defence doesnt work it is imediatley followed by other movements. The attacker also acts naturally. Not the lock, change into another lock, change into another lock - all while the uke just stands there rubbish you see in the modern schools!

The TJJ that I studied was awful. It was based around total compliancy. The so called attacker would step forwards with a highly telegraphed punch, and then stand motionless. The defender would apply all kinds of airy fairy idiotic techniques on him.

Agreed - utter utter rubbish!!

The major problem here is that people tend to build opinions on what they see. This is fine. For example i think there is only about 4 or 5 traditional schools in the whole UK - not organisations - schools!! so the chances of you actually seeing TJJ is very small.

There are many who claim to be practicing Traditional methods but they arnt.

Judo got popular by beating the major japanese tjj styles in Japan

Yeh but the whole of the Kodokan Judo team were top deishi from TJJ schools that Kano invited to join his squad and become famous.

Also Jigaro Kano stated that Aikido 'this is true judo!' and he sent 4 members of his kodokan team to train with Ueshiba. Does this mean that everyone here rates Aikido Over Judo in effectiveness??

Im glad we are having this conversation.As opposed to the usual BJJ can f$$ck up everthing else and i can lift heavy objects above my head.I dont beleive any system is complete(Mine included).Im just wondering how a BJJ ist would fare against someone from aikido?

Agreed - its good to talk!

As for BJJ vrs Aikido - depends on the student but i would say 9 out of 10 it would be BJJ!

But i would love to see Royce vrs Moritiro Saito (i think thats his name!) both are pretty tough!!!


Cheers
Chris

[Thai Bri]

Chris - the organisation called itself the "World Jiu Jitsu Federation". It was led by "Proffessor" Rob Clarke, and another idiot who's name I can't remember. But this Clarke has loads of books out that are still available.

They dished out "authentic" certificates to the black belts, shipped over from the head honcho in Japan. A guy went over to train with the said head. Guess what? He had never heard of Clarke or the WJJF.

My own instructors were nice guys. Just deluded. It is a shame that charlatans like the WJJF can cast a shadow over what might be an excellent art.

[JaredExtreme]

In my opinion, BJJ's most prominent weaknesses are:

1.Lack of striking
2.Danger of concealed weapons.

The striking issue to me isn't that big of a deal unless you are actually fighting someone who knows what he's doing. Most people are going to be throwing haymakers and other trash that you can slip/jam then tie up and go for the takedown.

However here is where a concealed weapon is a major problem. Pretty much every positin in BJJ leaves you susceptible to your opponent taking out a pocket knife and going to town on you. Whether it be guard, half-guard, sidemount, if your opponent even has a small blade, a few stabs in the right places and you could be done for.

Of course, like many others have said there is no one pefect art. Because BJJ doesn't practice any non-sense such as katas and most of the techniques are extremely useful, it is still my preferred martial art.

[Pornstar]

BJJ was never meant to incorporate strikes or weapons therefore is not considered a weakness. if you are looking for street self-defense that uses weapons and striking along with grappling and are only enrolled in a BJJ class, then this would be your weakness. good luck.

[chris davis 200]

Bri

Ahhhh - i know them well! dont particularly want to slag them off - but - yeh - they are pants!

there is a whole lot of people practicing what they think is authentic/japanese Ju Jutsu - when what they are in fact practicing is western Mcdojo stuff.

In fact the biggest organisations tend to be the ones with the least authentic knowledge! Very sad but very true. People with titles like Soke, 10th dans etc tend to be phonies. even most with 5 - 7th dans are phonies!

There is another big organisation doing exactley the same thing claiming lineage to japan. they are not Ju Jutsu. But one of their members went over to Japan - to the apparant birthplace of their stye - found the local budo school - and got laughed out of the dojo. He then came home and decided he had better find something else!

Un-suprisingly both of the head guys are very wealthy!

interesting state of affairs - there are FAR more people practicing MA's based on lies and deception than there are doing the 'real' thing.

This is one of the reasons i respect BJJ. It is far more obvious if a BJJ instructor is authentic or not. with the absence of mysticism etc that these dudes sell like a winner!!

cheers
chris

[Pornstar]

you said it man, especially with the belt ranking, no black belts for sale here, you'll earn it the old fashion way, sweat.