Do you think UFC is real or faked like WWF

[krys]

The animals aren't attacking the eyes of the other animal to end the fight. In the case of predator attacking prey, we'll take the snake and whatever prey it chooses. The snake spits its venom into the eyes of the creature. What has happened to the prey? It's been put at a major disadvantage. Does it lose its will to fight for its life? No, of course not. Does it still try and escape? Yes, like it always would.

Animals are attacking the eyes of other animals because they want to end the fight in two ways: 1) by abandon: they expect the predator to run away and give up: bird attacking a fox to protect it's nest, the bird wouldn't have any chance against the fox if it tried to bite/claw in other areas, eyes are sensible spots the fox cannot afford to loose...

2) by imobilisation: they expect to maim the prey immobilizing it: case of rats eating eyes of birds, snake hitting monkeys in their eyes, these animals don't want their prey to strugle and get injured.... this is the same for white sharks, they usually bite their prey once then release it because they don't want the seal to bite, waiting that they bleed to death nearby as they can't go very far.....

Now, let's take another example, except this time the prey will be attacking. Some random bird and its nesting grounds are attacked by a predator. The bird pecks at the eyes of the predator before fluttering away to a safer haven. What happened? The predator lost its eyesight. Why did the bird attack the predator's eyes? So that the predator could not attack or follow the bird effectively. Does the predator lose its will to fight for food? No, it's still hungry, and it'll do what it takes to eat, because it must.

In this case the predator will give up the fight with this bird and look for an easier prey... this tactic will stop/end the fight with this bird......... even if the predator is starving it won't eat this prey.... if you take a comparison opponent A (bird defending it's nest) landing eye strikes against opponent B (starving fox) while engaged in a mortal fight, opponent A will have stopped opponent B effectively although B needs to eat the eggs of A in order to survive.....

Now, one person attacking the eyes of another, who's to say exactly what will happen? You can't, and you certainly can't say that one thing will happen -every- time.

Absolutely, I never said that eye gouge are ultimate attack.... no attack has a 100% rate of success..... but someby said:

forgot to add that in the 1st ufc the only rule was no eye gouging. and besides that wouldnt stop ANYONE in a life or death situation.

some peoples on the thread pretended successfull eye gouges won't stop them in a life or death situation, I am convinced that a successfull eye jab has THE POTENTIAL of stoping an opponent at least temporarly in any kind of fights......


I've never pierced an eye myself but know somebody in the army who did, it was a success as he was able to defend himself against multiple attackers, only pb he got three years jail for it because the judge considered he knew martial arts and was considered like weapon carriying for this ....During organised fights it happened that I brushed my oponent's eye, mine got brushed to on another occasion.... it wasn't a life and death situation but even at this light stage it isn't really pleasant and gives a lot of opportunities for follow ups...

The attack could score a hit, but unsuccessful at causing any permanent damage: Congratulations, you have successfully pissed off your opponent more.

I was talking about a succesfull eye jabs.... there is no point of speaking of unsucessfull chokes, punches, kicks......

Well a fight is a fight, there are no rules in the street, with somebody you don't know you can't expect your opponent to fight fairly or limits to the damages... if he kicks and I fall on my head I may be dead .... if he lands the perfect kick on my knee I won't be able to walk properly afterwards..... what if he pulls a knive if he feels he is loosing?

The attack scores a hit, and permanently damage's your opponent's eyesight: Your opponent has become afraid for his life. Two things could happen here. He could break and cower in fear, hoping for mercy.

I don't believe he will think clearly about his life or whatever, the attack was a hit chances are it may break his will, anyway it will at least stop him say 10 seconds that I will be able to use either keeping following or running away.....

Or, he could assume the worst will happen, that you will continue to attack him. His baser instincts will probably force him into a fear-induced madness bent on either killing you or damaging you enough to give him a chance to run away.

You assume that he still will be in control and thinking clearly assessing the situation, I really doubt it........

The attack misses completely: Any number of things could happen. The fight could continue or stop. The opponent could throw something as or more damaging back at you.

There is no perfect attack, besides getting killed or permanently paralized I can hardly imagine something more damaging than losing my eyes, again in the street I don't expect flowers from an opponent I don't know..... i

[KungfuJeremy]

i think you completely missed the point of what hes was trying to say.

but dont worry you will learn yet grasshopper

[MMARuss]

The prey won't go very far, in the case the snake is attacked, the predator (lion or whatever) will run away to die somewhere else....

You missed what I was saying about the prey. It has lost its knowledge of where its attacker is. But simply being blinded certainly hasn't stopped the prey or made it lose its will to fight for its life. And that last part, I have no idea what lions or any of that had to do with a snake attacking its prey.

In this latter case the predator will give up the fight with this bird and look for an easier prey... this tactic will stop the fight with this bird..... this is a victory for the bird....

That has nothing to do with what I said. It does not stop the fight, the predator still wants that bird. However, the temporary/permanent blindness that the bird caused was not done to stop the fight in the bird's mind, it was done to give the bird a chance to run away, because it knows it can't beat the predator.

some peoples on the thread pretended successfull eye gouges won't stop them, I am convinced that a successfull eye jab has THE POTENTIAL of stoping an opponent at least temporarly......

I agree with that completely, and I hope you didn't think that I was disagreeing with that point.

I don't believe he will think clearly about his life or whatever, the attack was a hit chances are it may break his will, anyway it will at least stop him say 10 seconds that I will be able to use either keeping following or running away.....

Alright, you've read the message wrong. I said "break and cower." Break was referring to his will to fight being broken. Cowering could be interpreted as curling up into a ball or running to a safer place... to curl up into a ball.

You assume that he still will be in control and thinking clearly assessing the situation, I really doubt it........

No, I don't assume that he will still be in control and thinking clearly. He has just lost his eyesight. More and more adrenaline is pumping into his veins, his mind is flying, trying to figure out what to do. This is where instincts come in. Have you ever heard of fight-or-flight? That's what I'm referring to. He'll most likely thrash out wildly in an attempt to kill, damage, or scare you. If he tries this but fails, his instincts tell him to run... fast and far. Or his instincts could tell him to run first.

in case he wants to get nastier and I feel I'm going to lose really badly he will be on his way for a long holliday if he doesn't carry a gun...

Don't assume anything, is all I have to say to that. I try my best not to.

[krys]

You missed what I was saying about the prey. It has lost its knowledge of where its attacker is. But simply being blinded certainly hasn't stopped the prey or made it lose its will to fight for its life. And that last part, I have no idea what lions or any of that had to do with a snake attacking its prey.

First of all we got mixed up with the topic.... I was discussing the effectiveness of eye gouges that some peoples on the thread contest... they pretend there is no way such strikes could stop them...None of us knows how we may exactly react under such an extreme situation but the odds are not in our favour...

the prey hasn't lost it's will to survive, but the snake will have won the fight without having to struggle, getting injured...
The starving snake's goal is to eat the prey in order to survive, the prey's goal is to survive so we have a life and death situation where the snake stops the potential struggle of the prey by attacking it's eyes...
the monkey could have hit the snake if it had come close to bite but it choose to attak it's eyes from far away... poison injected through the eyes very quickly penetrates the tissues, the monkey still wants to survive but this won't last long...


It wasn't about snake attacking preys.... lion/snake was about the snake defending against a lion/leopards....

That has nothing to do with what I said. It does not stop the fight, the predator still wants that bird. However, the temporary/permanent blindness that the bird caused was not done to stop the fight in the bird's mind, it was done to give the bird a chance to run away, because it knows it can't beat the predator.

You didn't follow what I was triying to say.... the bird only needs to fly away to escape the predator, besides only fliying birds may actually be able to attack the eyes of say a fox.... if a bird decides to fight it stays to protect it's territory/nest, it hits the predator/fox in the eyes to scare it away and give up.... even if the predator is starving it cannot afford losing it's eyes and will run away looking for easier food....

No, I don't assume that he will still be in control and thinking clearly. He has just lost his eyesight. More and more adrenaline is pumping into his veins, his mind is flying, trying to figure out what to do. This is where instincts come in. Have you ever heard of fight-or-flight? That's what I'm referring to. He'll most likely thrash out wildly in an attempt to kill, damage, or scare you. If he tries this but fails, his instincts tell him to run... fast and far. Or his instincts could tell him to run first.

He may trash out try kill damage you, I agree but I think the pain/realizing what's happening will stop him maybe not permanently but at least for x seconds.... this will give you time to react: to finish him, break a joint, stand up and stomp-kick, or simply run away as I don't think he will be grabing you especially if he curls into a ball ...

[BadgerFu57]

1) Most skilled grapplers can grapple blind. So forget your eye gouges.
2) UFC or any competition has adrenaline affect, at least for me it does. My first match ever I had so much adrenaline I was dizzy.
3) Most tough guys can take a really good shot in the nards.... if you don't think they exist, pick a fight with a construction worker.
4) If you can't win a 1 on 1, how do you win a multiple opponent situation?

4) most McDojos can't grapple blind, don't do competitions where they get serious adrenaline, and they aren't as tough as construction workers.

[krys]

1) Most skilled grapplers can grapple blind. So forget your eye gouges.
2) UFC or any competition has adrenaline affect, at least for me it does. My first match ever I had so much adrenaline I was dizzy.
3) Most tough guys can take a really good shot in the nards.... if you don't think they exist, pick a fight with a construction worker.
4) If you can't win a 1 on 1, how do you win a multiple opponent situation?
4) most McDojos can't grapple blind, don't do competitions where they get serious adrenaline, and they aren't as tough as construction workers.

.........................
Trllific.

[alwaysmixwell]

ok this thread is if UFC is fake or not.. obviously its real.. its effectivness in a real fight is good also.. someone said well what if you get an eye gouge.. ufc doesnt allow them.. thats correct they dont. but your honestly saying that if someone gouged your eye that your not going to try to inflict pain on him ? personally if i got my eye gouged out i dont care if it takes dying im going to make sure that i take both of my opponents eyes out or break all his limbs or all of the above.. the last thing id do is run.. the way i see it is even if you lose eyesight completly where does that leave you ?? you cant run away cuz you cant see where the hell your going and most likely your going to get yer ass kicked anyways so why not try to inflict damage on your oppenent... eye gouges are effective to an extent BUT that doesnt mean it will always end a fight.. and im sure its hard to be able to gouge as hard as you can without having the person grap for your hand.. once you see a hand coming towards your face you instict is to move your hands up to it to defend it.. i personally dont think eye gouges are as easy as some people impose.. with someone defending it.. and yes someone posted grapplers fight blind.. this is also true a good grappler can go by feel. and once i get my eye gouged i aint letting that person go till i do some heavy damage myself. so i think the idea about eye gouging to stop a fight is possible in some cases but not all

[CKD]

[QUOTE=krys]

What happened in those UFC were not deliberate attempts to pierce eyes, were there eyes pierced in the examples you cited?

If you thrust your fingers full force through somebody's eyes this will pierce them...I have already gouged eyes with my hands and a stick also and the fight was over .... Why do you think eye gouges are found in nearly every martial art and combative course? I can't believe you guys serioulsy think you would be able to continue fighting efficiently as if nothing happened with your eyes pierced or hanging out of the sockets....


QUOTE]
All those UFC attempts at eye gouges were dudes trying to pierce there eyes. With Royce and Gordeau it was allowed back then. With Tank Abott he got it in incredibly deep but the dude kept on fighting and the ref did not see it. Frank Shamrock had his eye fishhooked and the ref of Pancrase was too afraid too call a foul so they just kept on fighting, The other dude ended up with a broken leg and Frank just had his eye pierced. For an example of how "effective eye gouges are you tell me about a 38 year old man being suprised attacked by a 17 year old? That sure proves how effective they are How many times in a "real" fight do you think your hands are going to get in good enouph for the eye to be pierced or fallen out. You are probaly going to get in a small poke in the eye but nothing much. You are trying to stick a dime sized object into another dime sized object with a moving object, during combat, and in the middle of a massive adrenaline burst. As for UfC being real. Yes it very much is.

[shadowkiller]

NO grappling is better for UFC crap because theres less chance of actually hurting anyone!

You call breaking bones not hurting anyone? Yeah thats it....

The early UFC's had a lot of broken arms and dislocated joints. It is entertainment but its also as real as you are gonna get. I can't say I really want to see two guys kill each other. Im not really sick you know.

[MrPoopy]

The UFC is fake.

[MMARuss]

The UFC is fake.

What makes you think that?

[krys]

For an example of how "effective eye gouges are you tell me about a 38 year old man being suprised attacked by a 17 year old?

Well street fights are not really duels, surprise attacks, multiple opponents.... the result was that the man lost his eyes because of an eye gouge.....

How many times in a "real" fight do you think your hands are going to get in good enouph for the eye to be pierced or fallen out.

Not every time, I admit.... but it can happen, I like to spare from time to time full contact wearing polo glasses and a mask, everything is allowed from eye attacks to bites and clawing in standup and on the ground... you would be surprised how many times eyes attacks pass through, they are easy to get because they dono't ask for little motion and very little power contrary to punches....I do not say every attack will pierce eyes, but full shots will and they can happen as kos with punches, even an eye brush will disorient an opponent for a few seconds... he will usually bring his hands up, back to his face which allows you to shoot, kick, follow.....
On the ground eye gouges will not always be easy to get against a better skilled grapler (he may just catch the arm) but opportunities exist as most grapling systems do not consider them (and bitting, clawing)..... some systems do have a look at the naban thread I posted....
If you fight an equally skilled or better grapler and he uses gouging/bitting while you don't what do you think will happen in the end?

As to blindfolded grapling it is a good idea and has to be practiced to obtain better sensitivity skills, but again it is practiced in ideal condition without the pain/shock factor... I would hope to be still able to defend myself if I lost my eyes but I prefer to take measures to avoid losing them.....

[guy incognito]

I pitty tha fools that beleive ufc is real.Real entertaining perhaps real test of martial skill perhaps not!

[Rudolphuss]

Do you think UFC is real.I cant beleive so many think it is!Its staged just like WWF! Yes or No?

Ya serious? Any fool can see all UFC punches and kicks and takedowns are full-contact and real.

[alwaysmixwell]

Do you think UFC is real.I cant beleive so many think it is!Its staged just like WWF! Yes or No?

how do you figure its staged though ? do you really think that the fighters practice all the moves that they are going to be applying on each other ? cuz thats what your post insists.. you haven't even backed up your theory on why it is fake ? all you say its its fake. just because there are rules doesnt mean its not a fight.. wwe is fake all the moves are laid out for the match.. do you really think that UFC is the same way where all matches are predicted already and they practice the entire fight sequence ?? thats impossible if you think so but if you do think that id like to hear some reasoning why. i think that if you post a new thread at least back up your opinions on it with some though... anyone can say naw thats BS its all fake.. ok well why do you think its fake then ?? what have you seen about the UFC that makes you feel that its staged ?? and this is also something to think about.. the fighters dont make any money other than the fight(from what i understand.. correct me with evidence if i am wrong but i know back in the day thats how it was). whoever wins the tourney gets the top price.. i think the fighters get at least $1,000 just for fighting so why would they have it all staged out like that ? thats not fair for the other fighters.. what 1 guys picked out to win all the money ??