catch as catch can wrestling or bjj

[WT77]

hi
i am bjj player, and i saw several videos of tony checcine and matt furey, and i was so impressive!!! i just try their several of their techniques and they worked in my bjj class, with people who know much more than me!!!!i want to know your opinion if anybody have trained in catch or know more about tony or matt!!!, for me catch looks the perfect grappling style, it looks more effective to ME than bjj in the ring and so focused for the street grappling, and of course i like bjj, and i will continue learning it.
just this sorry for my english but i am spanish hahaha!!
waiting for your replays!!!!

[seany85]

this old thread might help you

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?t=10069

[GRACIEAUSTIN]

I have done some reading on Catch wrestling & if you train in modern grappling arts the good techniques found in catch can only help your training from what I have found, but I don't think catch alone is going to make some one the best grappler they could posssibly be. 95% of the catch wrestling I have seen (not that I am an expert in catch) is covered in other grappling styles. I personally think Matt Furey is a better conditioning coach than grappler.

[kengar]

Well I don't have personal experience, though another who claimed to train with Tony said he is a great teacher. And the R.I.P video is a great buy.

[akja]

Theres probably some techiques in Catch that are not allowed in BJJ tournaments. But it will help round out your ground game. Some techniques won't be seen in a BJJ class while others cross over into BJJ.

[WT77]

thanks for your answers, the thing is that catch techniques work really well in bjj, but the techniques are controls of bjj are too in catch so why do bjj when catch has everything and more!!! i really don´t practice catch because there is not catch around here. The excuse of almost every bjj player always said is that bjj player looks more for a good control, for example the guard, and really i don´t believe in the guard, only for jiu-jitsu tournament if not i will not use it like and advantage, i see that catch use to take control of their opponents but they don´t care if they are in the guard or not!!! they always look the way to keep the control!!!and they use the guard , the cross the mount.... like bjj, so why is not catch even popular in the usa, it is the unique place where you can find it, why is not extended???just this
and i don´t want to say that bjj is shit, i love bjj i love the groundfighting but i know too that bjj is not a complete martial art, and that is overrated!!!and of course it is only my personal opinion.
i hope to see more of your replays
sincerilly
wt77

[GRACIEAUSTIN]

" so why do bjj when catch has everything and more!!! " - I don't think you have been training in the right BJJ school or maybe you are just having a very tough time learning from the instruction you have been given. I am a brown belt under Master Relson Gracie. I am a light weight & I think that I could submit the best catch wrestler you can find. I would be glad to prove this to you, but will not argue about it over the internet. (I simply don't have time) I hope you continue to enjoy whatever type of training you want. I have my opinion & am willing to prove it, no hard feelings I hope.

[jubaji]

" I am a brown belt under Master Relson Gracie. I am a light weight & I think that I could submit the best catch wrestler you can find. I would be glad to prove this to you, but will not argue about it over the internet.

No, you will just drop foolish, transparent bravado and be on your way. Gee, I hope your friends are reading this. They'll think you're really cool!

[TylerDurden]

The major difference between the two is not techniques. Almost every sub in BJJ is in CACC and vise versa. The difference is mindset. BJJ is position first, CACC is submission NOW.

If someone takes your back and sets hooks a BJJ player will normally defend and try to escape the position. A hooker will grab for one of your legs and try a twisting knee lock (or similiar submission). It's just a different way of looking at the situation. BJJ players always see it by position, I need a better position, need to escape a bad position. Hookers see it as what attacks are available where I am right now.

It's not that either one is better, hookers can catch you (no pun intended) from unexpected positions. But in doing so alot of times they put themselves at risk to get the rip or hook. They are both very good, and very dangerous, really I don't think either is 'superior'.

[GRACIEAUSTIN]

I don't care anything about looking cool, you should see the way I dress. All I care about is performance. I am very sincere about thinking that a great catch wrestler of any size will loose by submission to an advanced Gracie Jiu-Jitsu practitioner. I have seen the results of this style. I have traveled to over 12 different countries & sparred in most. I am going off what I have seen. I don't think typing my thoughts from life experiance is foolish. I do have respect for catch wrestling as a legit form of grappling if it is being practiced properly. I think many basic wrestlers that are conditioned and have been introduced to submission offense & defense are good fighters. I have respect for anyone that trains. I have invested over 15 hours of my time reading up about it & asking American wresting coaches about catch wrestling. I think I already know the answer if I ask the Brazilian's I know but don't have them think for me. Do you have any video footage of catch wrestlers beating up good Jiu-Jitsu Instructors? Does this happen on a regular basis? I have only had my brown belt for a couple months & would appreciate someone that can test my developing skills, specially if they are from another style. I would like to have a catch wrestler do this. I won't argue with you about this, that was never my goal. If you could find a high caliber catch wrestler I know I can set up a match where they get paid to grapple me. Or at least get put up at a casino, and have free admission to grapple me. I am not trying to make you mad, I am not trying to make an enemy. Please prove me wrong with actions, not words. I appreciate being enlightened. Phil Cardella - www.Austinjj.com

[GRACIEAUSTIN]

"The difference is mindset. BJJ is position first, CACC is submission NOW." I can't say I agree with you here Tyler. My Jiu-Jitsu is submission NOW. I have won 90% of my tournament matches by submission in a short amount of time. I don't think all Jiu-Jitsu is position first, I won 50 matches by submission from my guard or 1/2 guard in 2002. This was in gi, no gi & MMA.

I have submitted many people while they where on my back during training. Good submission holds are similar, great athletes are similar, but I would not say the styles are very similar.

[TylerDurden]

I was speaking more in general terms. Most BJJ guys I know don't attack when someone has their back, they escape and then attack. When I say submission now I don't mean in terms of time, I mean the CACC guys tend not to try for a better position. The simply try to attack from where ever they are at.

[jubaji]

I don't care anything about looking cool,www.Austinjj.com

That works out well.

I am very sincere about thinking that a great catch wrestler of any size will loose by submission to an advanced Gracie Jiu-Jitsu practitioner. www.Austinjj.com

Your 'sincerity' is of no consequence.

I am going off what I have seen. I don't think typing my thoughts from life experiance is foolish. www.Austinjj.com

People who do foolish things often don't realize it. That's what makes it so entertaining!

I have invested over 15 hours of my time www.Austinjj.com

You must be very young to consider 15hrs a long time!

If you could find a high caliber catch wrestler I know I can set up a match where they get paid to grapple me. Or at least get put up at a casino, and have free admission to grapple me. I am not trying to make you mad, I am not trying to make an enemy. Please prove me wrong with actions, not words. I appreciate being enlightened. Phil Cardella - www.Austinjj.com

Haw! I love this part!

[WT77]

this is for gracieaustin, first of all my bjj school is really good, my teacher is and incredible ground grappler!!!!!!!!but like any other martial art, bjj IS NOT PERFECT, and inside grappling even there it is NOT PERFECt, bjj is really good in the ground grappling game yes, and judo is better in the stand grappling game and because of that nobody says that judo is perfect!!!!!!!, and people like you who has an obsession with bjj, always say that almos 90% of the fight finish on the ground, maybe!!!! maybe finish, i see a several fights of judokas against people who maybe knew something or not!!! in my city are really cool judokas!!!!!and man when they did a takedwon yes the fight finish in the ground but to say correctly the fights end on the ground with the other guy ko in the ground because the the street floor is hard paviment, not the mat where you train or pride or ufc guys fight, and thats why i say that for me even that bjj has a cool ground grappling game catch wrestling looks more complete grappling style , because has the same or more submissions than bjj, they use the same positions, and in stand up grappling they are wrestlers so now you are going to tell me that you have better takedowns than a wrestlers!!!!, and man i see a lot of jiu-jitsu tournaments, abu dhabi an a lot of instructionals, and bjj tries in general to get the guard, the cross mount or the mount to apply a submission, and catch wrestler can apply a submission in the stand up game, between the takedwon after that and almost in everyposition in the ground, the don´t believe that guard is safe and man i will not like to be in the street and a have a guy in my guard!!!!!
and know don´t tell me that my bjj teacher don´t teach me well, bla bla bla bla.........try to think and and give good answers!!!ok1!!
and believe i like a lot the ground grappling game of bjj, it is incredible, and there is fucking good people in bjj, and nowadays nobody is perfect!!!!!!!! and i am not saying that if you know catch you will be the perfect fighter, but from what i see it looks a more complete GRAPPLING style than bjj!!!!!!just this!!!!!!but this my opinion!!!!!!maybe you are a great fighter, but you can loose, anyone can loose, and i think that sadly in bjj there is a lot of people like you, who can not see more far away than from his bjj, and it is so sad, because we can learn from others, and be better in where we do, and answer one of your questions!!!!!!!!! why i don´t train in catch instead of bjj, it is simple because in my country there is not catch, but believe me if there was catch in my city or my country, i will try to train in both arts, like this i could be a better grappler!!!!and one more time, sorry for my english, for me is a big effort to write in english and express what i feel!!!!!!
thanks all for your answer, and i hope you still enjoy this disccusion

[seany85]

heres a good article about Catch wrestling by a BJJ fella http://sfuk.tripod.com/sfukmainframe.html