Which MA to learn? (I am MA newb)

[Thai Bri]

Yeah, right.

As for Vladimir wotsisname....

Isn't he the guy who can pull off all kinds of amazing things....... but none of his students can? Kinda pointless.

[naginata]

What does what date the students were born on have to do with it

It has nothing to do with age, "LEO" stands for Law enforcement officer.

[krys]

Isn't he the guy who can pull off all kinds of amazing things....... but none of his students can? Kinda pointless.

None of his students can? Where did you get this? I know a few in France who can.... if you happen to go to Paris I can tell you where to find one. He already "converted" a few martists who had doubts about his skills....

Besides Vladimir taught spetsnaz units.... are you sugesting spetsnaz troops do not know how to fight ? The russian mafia must be foolish then to recruit those guys as hitmen-bodyguards....

[Thai Bri]

Can they do those techniques where he knocks people over without touching them? I fluckin doubt it mate.

As for training Spetsnatz? Maybe he did. Did you know that Royal Marine Commandos used to be taught Aikido moves?

Many people have trained various military specialist units. They make a big deal about it when it is time to sell their stuff..... but few of them can prove that what they trained was any good. The general quality of H2H training in the military is nothing to write home about. The USMC have a core system based on BJJ. Not too great when your deployed oin full battle gear, including webbing, body armour, armed to the teeth and maybe even a ruck sack.

[darrianation]

Can they do those techniques where he knocks people over without touching them? I fluckin doubt it mate.

As for training Spetsnatz? Maybe he did. Did you know that Royal Marine Commandos used to be taught Aikido moves?

Many people have trained various military specialist units. They make a big deal about it when it is time to sell their stuff..... but few of them can prove that what they trained was any good. The general quality of H2H training in the military is nothing to write home about. The USMC have a core system based on BJJ. Not too great when your deployed oin full battle gear, including webbing, body armour, armed to the teeth and maybe even a ruck sack.

TB is right. Many individuals as well as groups perform training seminars all the time for different and various military and or police units but it doesn't make their system official systems of those branches or units, nor does it prove their superiority. In general the civilian programs are better than the military programs that’s why they get invited to do seminars. They do the seminars because they get paid good money to do it and it looks good on their resume.

Frank Gucci for example a 12 year veteran of the SEAL teams (team six) once claimed he developed the official Navy SEAL fighting program and got in trouble with the SEAL teams for claiming this. All though he had trained SEALs his program was never the official MA of the Seals and he ended up having to apologize.

[krys]

Many people have trained various military specialist units. They make a big deal about it when it is time to sell their stuff..... but few of them can prove that what they trained was any good. The general quality of H2H training in the military is nothing to write home about. The USMC have a core system based on BJJ. Not too great when your deployed oin full battle gear, including webbing, body armour, armed to the teeth and maybe even a ruck sack.

Having a few friends in the military I agree with this.... generally speaking it is not good ...neverless military training (as well as education in general) in Russia is in my opinion tougher and better than in the West....

I am not talking about psychic energy or this stuff but h2h and weapon training.... What I saw works well and is usefull, their training methods are interesting and allow you to progress in the other mas you study.
Beside the fmas they have the only realistic weapon training I've seen....

Many individuals as well as groups perform training seminars all the time for different and various military and or police units but it doesn't make their system official systems of those branches or units, nor does it prove their superiority. In general the civilian programs are better than the military programs that’s why they get invited to do seminars.

I've never heard of non russians giving ma seminars to russian military or police units.... so I guess they have already what they need.

Systema teaches stand up fighting, groundfighting, close quarter weapons, projectiles, firearms, psychology of fighting as well as health practices... and is therefore a good candidate for a ma to learn....

What I understand is that different spetsnaz troops study different mas... Mykhail Ryabko (Vladimirs teacher) teaches systema to the MVD spetsnaz group based in Moscow and is a consultant for the ministry of defense....

[darrianation]

Having a few friends in the military I agree with this.... generally speaking it is not good ...neverless military training (as well as education in general) in Russia is in my opinion tougher and better than in the West....

I agree that sytema is a tough art and in general the Russians are tougher on their recruits and military personnel. When it comes to military training though the U.S and other European nations are of higher quality. Of course I am not talking about H2H training, just about all the other training.

In general terms I think that U.S, H2H training at least while I was in 80's to early 90's thee H2H was pretty non-existent and what did exist was piss poor. They did bring in outside (civilian) people to train troops that were very good but there never any real follow up. Basically you got a week of training from someone like Paul vulnuck, Tony Blauer, etc then you were left to your own devices to keep your skills up.


Note I never have been trained by Vulnuck (sp?), but I did participate in seminars by Tony, S.C.A.R.S. and a Krav Maga guy that were pretty good.

[Thai Bri]

Its Vunak....... Vunak.....

From what I heard of SCARS, it is based on a totally false premise and, as such, is shite.

[darrianation]

Its Vunak....... Vunak.....

From what I heard of SCARS, it is based on a totally false premise and, as such, is shite.

SCARS has its good and bad, but what system doesn't? I learned some good things in all my training, of course I have learned a lot of stuff that is pure shit too. I honestly think SCARS is slightly over rated, but I wouldn’t completely call it worthless either. I guess you need to learn to separate the chaff from the wheat and TB i know you can but their seems to be a lot of people out there that can't.

I watched a couple of Vunak (correct spelling thanx) tapes that showed a lot of trapping; it seems that vunak is a pretty big proponent of trapping. The funny thing is I watched a tape with advanced student free fighting and I didn't see a single trap, hmm I wonder why? Is it that in real fighting it is very difficult to do?

I don’t buy into trapping it takes to much fine motor skill and precise timing. I highly doubt it is all that effective in a real violent street confrontation.

[darrianation]

A note about SCARS

A note on SCARS

It was created by Jerry L. Peterson a Vietnam veteran and a member of the 173rd Airborne Charlie Company. He believed that the H2H standards of the military were sub standard.

It is owned by DAC; Direct Action Corporation that specializes in national and international corporate, law enforcement, as well as military security contracts.

It’s built around a solid core of fight physiology and combat conditioning. It emphasizes CQB, and ECQB.

They provide civilian, law enforcement. And military training, so depending what category you are into will depend on the type of training you will get.

The list of what they teach:
1) Personal & Property Protection
2) VIP Protection Team Training (Law Enforcement & Corporate)
3) Law Enforcement P.A.C.T. Training (defensive tactic)
4) Peace Keeping Tactical Training
5) Counter-Terrorist Response Team Training
6) Aviation Security development and training
7) Small Arms Training
8) Close Quarters Combat
9) Tactical Long Range Rifle
10) Explosive Entry
11) Explosives Disposal
12) Chemical Biological Warfare Training

I have received training by SCARS both at Coronado Calif. And at their primary headquarters in Phoenix, AZ. I have also completed COI, or Combat Fighting Course as well as levels 1 and 2.

TB I am not sure which premise you are talking about when you say it’s bogus. Like I said before there are things that I don’t agree with but I think it’s a good system for professionals.

[Blackwood]

Anywhere near Guelph? If so I'd highly recommend you check out this school:

Shidokan Canada

I've know the Pauls for over 4 years and they are top notch.

And this article may give you some guidance:

Choosing a Martial Art

[Thai Bri]

Darianation- I agree about the trapping. Its a whole load of training for very little pay back and, like oyu say, you don't see it actually used in a real go.

As for SCARS, the underlying misake they make is the over emphasis on predicting the atackers movements. You kick him in the groin, so he will definately bend forwards, leading to you hitting his neck, so he will definately fall, leading to your kick as he is on the floor, so he wil definately curl up in a certain way etc.

They're being too clever. It doesn't work that way. And there are a great many Vietnam Vets. It doesn't make someone an expert.

[darrianation]

This is a legitimate concern.

This gets into theory VS reality. A lot of systems seem to do this. They base techniques and groups of techniques around people’s natural reactions. Works great in theory but sometimes not so great in the real world, however at higher or advanced levels you begin to get away from this a bit and get more into adoption to other people’s reactions.

As for the balls thing, SCARS claims to research each and every technique to prove their effectiveness, so how do you think they researched the kick to the nads thing? I hope they paid that poor bastered well!

[Thai Bri]

I bet he has a squeaky voice.......

In my view they are coming acros as too clever by half. You don't need to research what strikes will hurt. A whallop on the jaw/throat/carotid/temple/kidneys etc. Done hard it all works. All the complicated stuff just, well........ complicates things!