Best art to take up to be a doormen

[ironjay]

Hey i was wondering im 20 and due to start as a doormen/bouncer security man at a night club , and was wondering what would be best to take up

Cheers for any help

[CKD]

BJJ since you do not necesarily want to hurt the patrons but control them. The same control locks also can be used to break a joint if a cituation turns very violent.

[Thai Bri]

That is the worst advice I have ever heard. Don't get me wrong, BJJ is a fantastic art. For a one on one conflict, unarmed, with a little space..... I would recommend it too. But door work can never be guaranteed to be any of these things. Youd'd be outnumbered in a crowded area, full of glass carrying punters. Do you really want to roll on the floor?

Go here mate www.geoffthompson.com

This guy was a bouncer for 9 years. Check out his "Fence" video. You will be impressed.

[DragonAE86]

Hey i was wondering im 20 and due to start as a doormen/bouncer security man at a night club , and was wondering what would be best to take up

Cheers for any help

Depends on the ppl you train with, I was head doormen in Bedfords George & Dragon for almost 4 yrs (Predominantly a rugby players venue), I also worked the local nightclubs including the worst, which was called Chaplins and no suprise closed down a few years back.

I studied Wing Chun under Brian Desir for 12yrs under http://www.eawingchun.uklinux.net

I also Studied Muay Thai, Judo and now BJJ under Ze Marcello (Brazilian Top Team). I also have private tution with guy called Danny Batten who takes Vale tudo classes (Muay Thai & BJJ).

The main thing is that you have a realistic view on your surroundings, always be polite, don't stand around with an attitude/chip on the shoulder.

I would say good Judo/Jiu Jitsu & Boxing skills will be adequate for the job.

The most skilled doormen are the ones who don't resolve a situation with fighting but by dissolving the situation (not always easy to do I know).

Goodluck and keep safe.

[Uncle Corny]

That is the worst advice I have ever heard. Don't get me wrong, BJJ is a fantastic art. For a one on one conflict, unarmed, with a little space..... I would recommend it too. But door work can never be guaranteed to be any of these things. Youd'd be outnumbered in a crowded area, full of glass carrying punters. Do you really want to roll on the floor?

Go here mate www.geoffthompson.com

This guy was a bouncer for 9 years. Check out his "Fence" video. You will be impressed.

i agree with this entire post. didn't expect to see someone who knew of the geoff thompson link.

[Thai Bri]

You'd be surprised what you see here mate!

By the way, you never took me thorugh a typical Cestari training session. Go on, don't be shy!

[m.artist]

it might be good to take up a good ground art and a good striking art. odds are the guys you will be rolling with will be not so big punks with big mouths anway. i'd say boxing, muay thai or judo. judo would be good because you won't hurt them as badly, and because you won't have to be on the ground when the guy's buddies jump in

[Tom Yum]

I'd say judo/wrestling/boxing would be sufficient. Don't know about UK, but doormen in the US (depending on establishment) are generally not allowed to strike guests inside the establishment.

It would be helpfull if you were large and mean looking, because that perception is a pretty good detterent; some of the meanest, biggest bouncers are strong so they never have to really fight, just take the action out the door.

If you're not so intimidating in presence you can make up for it in verbal de-escalation and fight skills.

[Uke]

Let me add my 2 cents as I had been bouncing for years.

First off, you NEVER want to use BJJ as a bouncer. Period.

Second, while you're not supposed to hurt a patron, if he swings at you or worse yet hits you, worry about that later. Live to fight it in court.

Third, keep it simple. A bar, club or parking lot is not a place to start acting cutesy or artsy. Keep it simple and direct.

Fourth, no matter what discipline you choose, ALWAYS WATCH YOUR OWN BACK. No matter how cool or trustworthy your fellow bouncers may seem, make sure that you always stay aware of who and what is around you. You can't do it all by yourself, but staying aware is an exercise well worth practicing.

Fifth, I would advise against styles like Tae Kwon Do, or any other high kicking style as your balance is often comprimised in bars/clubs due to spilled drinks, ice, and as nasty as it sounds...vomit. I'd use TKD before I'd resort to BJJ though.

If I had to recommend a style it would be reality based and less cute, like Vee Jitsu, Tony Blauer's stuff, Krav Maga....stuff like that. The reason I left out FMA is because they rarely have solid restraining techniques, which means you don't have the option arrest and control: the fundamentals of what a bouncer should know.

Chokeholds are illegal, and if they(cops,D.A.) can prove you used one they will prosecute, and more than likely you will do a little time as chokeholds have been associated with attempted murder. It would help to learn your current State's "force matrix", meaning the amount of force that can be lawfully used in your area. So don't be macho and get "medieval" on some poor kid's ass just because you don't think your fellow bouncers will tell on you. If they're accused and arrested, I've seen bouncers tell on each other just to protect they're own butts. Another thing to keep in mind before you decide to make a bar/club your personal proving grounds, make sure the place isn't wired with cameras. Most of the time you'll know, but there are times when owners want to keep the bartenders honest and don't even let the staff know about the cameras. If the tape is subpoenaed, you're screwed.

The best way to handle a bouncing job is simply NUMBERS. I don't care how big and bad you are, always take a guy outside together. Its smarter, less dangerous and the likelihood that you'll receive resistance is very low.

On a last note, keep in mind that all these so-called tough guys who brag that they've been bouncing for years and have had 200+ fights are usually trying to sell you something. Anyone who brags about bar fights isn't being truthful. Bar fights aren't like westerns or the choreographed scenes you see Steven Segal throwing people everywhere. Usually at least one of the guys fighting is drunk, which means you shouldn't be patting yourself on the back for beating up a drunk guy anyway. And if both are drunk, its nothing for a white belt to look like Bruce Lee.

So stay humble. Bouncing is a team sport, otherwise you'll get killed or jailed trying kick everyone else's ass.

Peace

[Mr. Miyagi]

I know a couple bouncers. One of them has been in a very short fight with a wise guy where he dropped him with a single punch to the jaw, and get this, he trained bjj and won his fight with a straight right! The other guy has never had to fight. They have both had to break up plenty of fights though, that's the more important skill as a bouncer. They've also had to talk plenty of people into leaving the club, people who argued but eventually left. Dragging someone out is more likely to escalate into a fight, better to tell them they're history after they finish their beer.

I'm totally into bjj, but JKD and Wing Chun are good styles for defense against brawling. With Wing Chun you have to make sure you're at a good school because there are a lot of charlatans out there pretending to teach it. Wrestling or judo should be fine too. You gotta be careful if you ever do fight that you don't use excessive force against a rowdy patron. You could get in a lot of trouble if you slam or punch a guy who just had too much to drink while you are not only sober, but trained in a martial art.

A bouncer's job does not involve fighting, it's about keeping peace.

[bvermillion]

Hapkido is full of seizing and restraining techniques. Sounds like the perfect art for the job.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Hapkido is awesome, but most of the teachers out there that claim to teach it are McDojo TKD black belts that say they teach Hapkido too. There's so much fake Hapkido going on out there, such a shame because it's a very realistic and effective fighting art.
If you randomly pick a Hapkido school from your yellow pages most of the time you'll find a bullsh;t school. Same with Wing Chun.

[Uke]

I didn't mention Wing Chun for a reason: its a striking art.
You outright punch a guy and if something happens to him, you're in big trouble. Actually, unless you're excellent at blocking and parrying exclusively, you'll land in jail with wing chun. That's for certain. Hapkido would be fine as long as you don't drop into any stances or start throwing flying kicks in a club. I've seen people do the high kicks in clubs and the guy ducks and the bouncer winds up kicking a woman in the face.

I don't know what bars/clubs anyone here has bounced at, but here in NY if an altercation has begun, we're not letting the guy go back and finish his beer. And once we, and I put emphasis on WE, take the guy outside he doesn't want to fight anymore because he's surrounded by a number of guys larger than him. I've done it a hundred times over. No matter how wild the tough guy wants to be, once he's outside and it looks like he's in a circle of guys who look like linebackers, he calms down almost immediately. That's why bouncers aren't hired based on their ability to fight, they're hired on their ability to intimidate in order to keep the guy from wanting to fight.

Wrestling and judo are only good in crowd control when you are using a technique where it restrains a guy, or to tackle a guy until other bouncers can come and help. Jujitsu "come-along" techniques, which are very similar to Chin-Na are much more useful than those others. Being the doorman, you usually experience violence coming from inside the club, not the other way around. Parking lot fights are an issue for 911. Never forget people may get patted down to enter the club, but many keep a pistol in their car.

The original question posed was geared to find out what style would work the best while working as a bouncer, not how to use verbal diffuses. I advocate and have used verbal diffuses in each non-aggresive situation, but they are not relevant to the points being made here.

[CKD]

An art based on control would be good. I said bjj because it is based on control. If you do bjj it does not mean you mindlessly go to the ground. John Dahner a black belt under Renzo has used it as a doormen and according to him it worked a hell lot better than all the other arts. I too have worked as a doormen and BJJ techniques have helped. Geoff Thompson has some is good I have done some training under him but I am guessing you do not have a school of his in your area. Krav Maga and similar arts are not the best since they were meant for more extreme confontations. You would get in quite of bit of trouble for kneeing a persons groin and nailing him in the back of the head for grabbing you.

[Uncle Corny]

You'd be surprised what you see here mate!

By the way, you never took me thorugh a typical Cestari training session. Go on, don't be shy!

well mate, i told you to pm me if you're really interested. Damian and pete are my instructors.