It's Ironic... BJJ vs Striking

[CKD]

Don't run away CKD,

I just want you to answer this question. You said yourself that BJJ is the core of MMA... That would mean that the determing factor of each fight depends on how well they knew BJJ.

So here's the question: How do BJJ guys lose to people who have less experience in BJJ?

Do you spend all day in front of a computer? You posted this in less than 5 hours. sounds like you are an internet warrior.

[pstevens]

Do you spend all day in front of a computer? You posted this in less than 5 hours. sounds like you are an internet warrior.

Actually, if you took the time to read.. You would notice that that post was from the 18th. But, to answer your question. My job entails surfing the internet, so you will notice that I seldom post after 5PM.

Anyway, you still haven't anwered the question and now you're resorting to personal attacks... A sure sign of confusion... It's okay, man. I won't hold it against you to back up your claims. Have a good life.

[CKD]

Actually, if you took the time to read.. You would notice that that post was from the 18th. But, to answer your question. My job entails surfing the internet, so you will notice that I seldom post after 5PM.

Anyway, you still haven't anwered the question and now you're resorting to personal attacks... A sure sign of confusion... It's okay, man. I won't hold it against you to back up your claims. Have a good life.

Haven't answered what do you call this?
"In the beginning the Gracies did not crosstrain. They relied on bjj. I said BJJ is the BASIS of mma fighting. Everyone studies it and needs it so they do not get caught by suprise. For striking arts people do different things like boxing and kickboxing and for takedowns arts like wrestling, sambo, and judo but all study BJJ groundfighting and strategy. But there is more to mma. If a person knows a load of BJJ even if its a bit less than the other person but is better at everything else than he can win. See the logic? If Dan had no clue about BJJ's strategy and technique do you think he would have won? Probaly not. He would not know defenses to standing subs and might be taken to the ground if he didn't know that was Renzo's strategy. I never said BJJ is invicible. You just seem to like making attacks on bjj. Funny thing is when you are proved wrong you try to change the subject. Here is my advice to you.
1.Stop lying about doing BJJ.
2.Go learn bjj.
3.Stop blaiming your lost streetfights on arts you never did."
That wasn't a personal attack just curious why you can not wait a few hours for someone to post.
Here is your question "How can someone with less BJJ training than the other beat the other person if BJJ is the basis of mma?" Here is the answer.
BJJ is just the basis. There is more to add to it. If the person is has knowledge of BJJ and is better at the other areas of fighting. Then if he can find a way to counter the strategies and tatics of BJJ then he can win. Need to know anything else? I get what your saying. That to be a better martial artist you need to stop worrying about styles and add on whats effective. But personal attacks on BJJ is not the way to do it.

[kyokushinkid]

BJJ LACKS MANY IMPORTANT FIGHTING ASPECTS, SUCH AS UPRIGHT FIGHTING. a pure breed Karate, Kung Fu, TKD and kickboxer will always beat a mixed fighter

[IPON]

BJJ LACKS MANY IMPORTANT FIGHTING ASPECTS, SUCH AS UPRIGHT FIGHTING. a pure breed Karate, Kung Fu, TKD and kickboxer will always beat a mixed fighter

I assume youy are joking are at least sitting in the lazy boy, with a bong and recently purchased dime bag.

Seriously, all the styles you have mentioned have been beaten by BJJ so you are starting out wrong.

[CKD]

BJJ LACKS MANY IMPORTANT FIGHTING ASPECTS, SUCH AS UPRIGHT FIGHTING. a pure breed Karate, Kung Fu, TKD and kickboxer will always beat a mixed fighter

Do takedowns count as upright fighting? Anyways there are basic strikes in BJJ http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives...oct95/ult.html But if you really want to become a good striker I would suggest other arts.

[Crabpuff]

You know why not say that BJJ can give you an edge and leave it at that.

[chris davis 200]

BJJ has its place.

Mainly in competition fighting in the Vale Tudo, MMA arena's
It is dominant in these evens cause they suit it.

It is non existant in Other sport formats cause they dont suit it.

In Kyokushin Rules it would loose - quite obviously. Just like a Kyokushin fighter would loose in a Grappling contest.

BJJ vs striking - impossible to answer because it depends on the rules involved. If there are none - then it would be street fight stylee and anything would go - so then it would come down to the dirty tactics each exponent was willing to employ.

BJJ has its place - Its place is the combat sports arena in the main.

[jubaji]

so then it would come down to the dirty tactics each exponent was willing to employ.

.

?????????????????????????????????????????

[shasan]

um... take this scenario:

1. pure breed *insert traditional japanese/chinese martial art here* vs. *insert first name here* Gracie

2. no holds barred, one-on-one, no weapons

Come now. let's get real. Ever heard of the 'Gracie Challenge?' There is much much video evidence...BJJ kicks the ass of them all... any of the 'Gracie JJ in Action' videos will tell you that.

Oh wait, yes, BJJ guy would probably lose in a striking only fight. And probably in a 'kick with right-leg only' fight, and 'no breathing allowed' fight, and God knows how many other kinds of fights. Therefore,BJJ must suck.

[CKD]

Actually Crosley Gracie, whos backround is pure bjj, entered an amateur muay thai event. The match lasted 22 seconds. Crosley got a good exchange and then on reflex went for a double leg. He was disqualified. BJJ is not good for pure striking.

[shasan]

Actually Crosley Gracie, whos backround is pure bjj, entered an amateur muay thai event. The match lasted 22 seconds. Crosley got a good exchange and then on reflex went for a double leg. He was disqualified. BJJ is not good for pure striking.

Oh good god.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I don't think Henderson (Renzo), or Gomi (Ralph), or Mark Coleman (Alan Goes) needed to 'negate' any bjj attacks. When was the last time you saw a bjj guy attempt a standing sub anyway? They came into the fight with a plan to avoid sitting in their opponent's guard and try to keep things standing. They didn't need bjj knowledge for that, they just avoided bjj by doing that. Even the almost having a sub from the guard on a stronger guy who can stand back up is dangerous, as Arona vs Rampage showed. Saku, on the other hand, was lucky he survived Rampage's slams and he shouldn't have put himself in that position, but he also had the ability to take Rampage down and take his back and win.
Gomi took out Ralph so fast that it basically didn't matter what either of them had done in preparing for that fight.
Royler shouldn't have even been in the ring with Sudo.

Superior athletes are at the top of MMA now. 'Good technique' like the Gracies always talk about, doesn't cut it anymore.
Renzo can't hang with top fighters. His standup is ineffective and he can't take anyone down. He can't even really pull guard on someone that doesn't want to go down. I still can't remember that fat Japanese wrestler's name, but that was the most pathetic fight I've seen, the guy wasn't even fighting back but Renzo still couldn't hurt him standing, couldn't pull guard, and couldn't take him down.
Rodrigo is still undefeated but that'll change when he fights a tougher middleweight. I don't think squeeking by an over-the-hill much lighter Mach Sakurai is anything to write home about.
Daniel Gracie looks pretty good too but he's going to get KO'd by one of the top guys.
What can they possibly do to someone who they can't get to the ground and is a better striker than them?
But in grappling only events, both Royler and Renzo are amazing because it is required to go to the ground and since there is no striking, it plays into their strengths.

The Brazilian Top Team is doing the best job forcing guys to fight a bjj fight now. They have stronger, faster, more aggressive guys on their team. They can take guys down that are trying to avoid the ground war and they can trade shots standing with good strikers. But Sperry is pushing 40 now, getting to old, he should hang it up and concentrate on training his team, he's the best teacher and trainer around even though he himself has screwed up in a few fights now. They got the two Nog's, Busta, Vitor, and a bunch more. Which Gracie could go the distance with Rampage, like Busta did, despite giving up a few pounds.
BJ Penn is pretty amazing too. But he can punch and take people down in addition to being a phenomenal grappler. He pulled off a standing rear naked on Gomi, something I couldn't see either Ralph or Renzo getting.

BJJ is awesome and still very effective in MMA, but people should know enough not to be bjj as$ lickers to think that it's the core of every fight.

Ever seen the flying armbar Rumina Sato pulled off on bjj black belt John Lewis? I've yet to see a bjj fighter with the balls to try that in MMA and get it too. Sato paid the price for taking chances a few times but he was fun as hell to watch.

[CKD]

I don't think Henderson (Renzo), or Gomi (Ralph), or Mark Coleman (Alan Goes) needed to 'negate' any bjj attacks. When was the last time you saw a bjj guy attempt a standing sub anyway?

Lots of fighters attempt standing gullotines and standing kimuras depending on the fighter. Those are the most common attack. Today in mma you need knowledge of BJJ that is what I am saying. The reason BJJ did good in the early days of BJJ was because it had something other art didn't. The stnading artist were easy to take down, wrestlers did not know subs, sport sambo does not allow chokes, judos groundfighting was limited and so on and so forth. Then everybody studied BJJ so they wouldd not get caught off guard. Wrestlers learned boxing and how to avoid subs, when gloves were implemented strikers could hit as hard as they want, strikers learned how to avoid takedowns and break clinches and they learned enouph groundfighting to keep them alive before they were stood up or the round ends. Then BJJ fighters started learning subs and submissions. P.S I think Ralph will kill Gomi if they have a rematch and we will see how good Rodrigo is. Sakurai is considered by many the best Japanese fighter and Rodrigo says he wants a peice of Sakuraba so we will see.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Yes, a lot of people did crosstrain and this took the sport to a much higher level. Fighters that lacked ability in striking and wrestling, but were great bjj artists, even if they crosstrained were quickly weeded out; some of them were given too many chances because their name happened to be Gracie. Most of the Gracies are not physical specimens, they worked hard at bjj and are good at it, but even if they train striking they can't be serious threats with it. On the other hand, tough athletes like Rampage and Henderson can easily learn a tiny bit of bjj and just use their other attributes to destroy a bjj fighter.

At the time Royce beat Dan Severn and earlier, Ken Shamrock, they had no idea about what his style or strengths were. Dan didn't even know what a triangle was when he got caught in one. If Dan knew what Royce's game was, he could easily have refused to go to the ground. Any top wrestler can decide to keep things standing against any top bjj fighter. And most of the time the wrestler's striking is better than the bjj artist's. Therein lies the problem for the bjj fighter. Dan Henderson knows this and knew that Renzo would never ever be able to take him down and would be at a severe disadvantage trading shots with him standing.

LOL at Ralph killing Gomi in a rematch. It may last longer but he'll get smacked around again. Ralph is aggressive but he hasn't really proven much in MMA. Gomi is one of the top lightweights in the world.

Rodrigo has gotten some decisions in snoozefest fights so far. He didn't beat Sakurai that badly, he won that decision mostly because he got side mount at the end of the fight, otherwise it was pretty even and boring. Sakurai has been doing way too many fights over the past several years and his body is worn down, even though he's not that old. He normally weighs less than 170. Japanese fighters do no cut weight for some reason and almost all of them can easily be 15-20 pounds lighter than the weight at which they fight. I think Sakuraba could easily be under 170 if he cut weight like a western fighter, Kondo could be under 185, Shoji could be under 190, Takada could easily drop 30 pounds of flab, etc. On top of that PRIDE seems to regularly schedule ridiculous matchups of overweight Japanese fighters against lean western fighters that have a 20 pound advantage over the Japanese. Someone like Rodrigo is pretty lean and wouldn't be able to cut much weight at all.
If Tito were Japanese and didn't care about cutting weight he'd weigh around 230, Silva would be about the same, most every western fighter would be 20 pounds heavier under Japanese training. That fat fool Sataake needs to drop about 40 lbs to be at his natural weight, his striking is not that bad but he's always fighting guys that are too strong and big for him; even if he has the weight it's about 40 lbs of fat too.

I think standing guillotines and standing kimuras that finish a fight are pretty rare. Usually a fighter that believes that they can get the guillotine standing ends up in a terrible position and no guillotine, very rarely do they get the guillotine. Everyone learns how at least two ways to escape/avoid a standing guillotine in grappling 101.

CKD, I like bjj too but you are such a huge Gracie as$ licker. You're not being reasonable and you defend the Gracies and bjj no matter what the circumstance.