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Has anyone done this art and is it any good? There is a discussion on www.tung-fu.com in the reality fighting secton and I wanted to here everyone elses opinion. The people that posted on the thread claimed to have trained it and said it was unrealistic. It was used by the Russian Special Forces from what I heard and the Russians have already produced 2 highly effective systems ROSS and Sambo. The Russian military takes there martial arts seriously judging from my training in those two arts so I wonder what could be wrong with this one. So can I hear from someone that has trained it or has some experience in it? Here is the website www.russianmartialart.com
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I haven't trained in it or anything, but I can tell you that it's probably like nothing you've seen before. A lot of people think that it is unrealistic (there's a technique on the tapes that shows you how to roll with a punch and use your chin to put someone in an armlock, designed to be used if you're hands are tied behind your back).
As for the striking, they use more of a whipping strike (open hand) and kick (they have a weird kick called the "trinity kick" or something like that which uses the momentum of the kick to hit three times...you'd have to see it to know what I'm trying to describe). I can't say whether or not it's a good system, but the power generation from the whips looks to at least be quick and easy for someone to pick up, although it really does look...different.
It's got some neat looking disarms (guns and knives), as well as some interesting improvised weapons (quarters in the fingers, rolled up magazine used with a stabbing motion, belts, etc). But I'm not a weapons expert, so I can't even pretend to tell you how effective they would actually be. -
Yeah, and there are clips about of "pushing" the attacker to the floor without touching him........
By the way, don't judge an entire nation on one fighting art. Just look at the dire Japanese systems out there. That doesn't reflect on the whole nation.
Systema is well hyped. Apparently their head honcho can do some impressive things. But his students can't.Comment
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In my limited experience, I was impressed with some and put off by much more. They do have some powerful strikes and some good defenses against single and double chokes, though some of the training just doesn't seem practical. Some of their movements come from waving your body, yes, much like you were break dancing in the 80's. The ground rolling that is taught for defending yourself from the ground...I can understand learning to move on the ground, but I never really seen any practical ground fighting.
Your best bet is go check them out and see if its something you want to do.Comment
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Maybe the pushing the attacker without touching him is how to fake out a drunk guy and make him fall back?Originally posted by Thai BriComment
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Well, he was demonstrating in class, and all the goons were clapping.
I think its more like one of those Chi tricks that, miraculously, only work on the students of that art.Comment
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Well one of these "systema" schools is pretty close to my house so if I get a chance to check it out ill report back.
Sincerly,
Andrew VelocciComment
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i was quite interested in this system. I have got quite a few videos from
they are all quite good - the striking is interesting but quite close to the chinese internal stuff i do. I also got some knife fighting stuff, grappliing, the system basics box set etc.
There are lots and lots of video's of the training in this style.
Alot of the stuff the big fat headmaster does seems quite fake - but he seems to know how to punch!
check out this video resource :
Vlademir Vasiliev loks like an extremely compitent fighter. His videos back this up. He is a student of the headmaster so there seems to be some good teaching structure there. Also many of VV's students are good representatives of the system.
Regards
ChrisComment
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Originally posted by chris davis 200
Yeah, we noticed some "shades" of Chen style Tai Chi, and Baguazhang in the striking methods (similar, but not exactly the same). I haven't seen the big headmaster. I've only seen the tapes with Vladimir on them.
I've only seen the tapes from 6-7 years ago, but from what I've seen then, his students weren't all that good compared to him. It really looks like it would take some time to really unlearn how to strike/fight like we're used to seeing in the Western cultures. I'm not saying it's ineffective (I'm not even saying that is is effective), just that it would have a larger learning curve than a style like Boxing, Muay Thai, or even Praying Mantis Kung Fu.Comment
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I have got some recent tapes and his students seem to be extremely profficient fighters, Some even instructing on the tapes.
It is said that due to the principle based work rather than techniques the system is absorbed very quickly. It works on free work, and body movement drills rather than Techniques vrs techniques. I am aware of guys here in the UK that have good skill in this system after a period of 6 - 12 months.
Of course none of the students are a good as Vlad but how many people actually reach the skill level of their teachers?
They do alot of body conditioning work as far as i am aware. and it is confirmed as the Spetznats special opperations unit combat system.
The system uses extremely tought training methods in the Spetz special opperations units but has been taimed down by Vlad and MR for civilian use.
I would sudject that the best option for finding out about the systems involvement in the military is to get the Systema Handbook. It has some interesting stuff in there.
I must re itterate that i am not a systema stylist or practitioner - but found it interesting as a style.Comment
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Systema
When I first watched the systema tapes I made a highlight tape of all the crazy examples they had on there. We thought it was a big joke.
No one has to believe me on this. I have had the opportunity to train with one of Vlads students Al McLuckie. Alan Mckluckie has trained in several styles of Filipino MA, Chinese internal arts and much more for over 30 years. He is very adept in what he does. With that being said, once he was introduced to Systema he pretty much turned his entire focus on it because he felt it was much more than anything he had been doing before.
Like I said I thought it all looked like a big joke at first. It is not. It seems alot like several other martial arts but it is definately one that you have to see and practice in person to understand. I am not sure if it is a martial art that I would want to be the fisrt one I began to train because it is so unorganized (In a good way).
If you get I chance check it out. There is a guy named MArtin Wheeler who is also very skilled in Systema and worth training with.
Don't take my word, check it out for yourselfComment
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in fact there is a seminar in london this weekend with Vlad himself!!
you can also pay on the door.
Check here out for more details.
Cheers
ChrisComment
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I train in ROSS but my training partner introduced me to SYSTEMA....Has anyone done this art and is it any good? There is a discussion on www.tung-fu.com in the reality fighting secton and I wanted to here everyone elses opinion. The people that posted on the thread claimed to have trained it and said it was unrealistic. It was used by the Russian Special Forces from what I heard and the Russians have already produced 2 highly effective systems ROSS and Sambo. The Russian military takes there martial arts seriously judging from my training in those two arts so I wonder what could be wrong with this one. So can I hear from someone that has trained it or has some experience in it?
I cannot see much difference between both arts although ROSS seems to be more structured and students start doing hard work (fast training) at an earlier stage in ROSS....
It is an effective art and gives results quickly, the weapon training is realistic too although I think fmas are better in that area.Comment
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i saw a documentary on systema on discovery channel last week and thought it looked pretty lame. nothing that was demonstrated was done at "live speed" and it was all a case of partner attacks, defender applies technique. it is quite unusual though and seems to look a little like some internal kung fu or even some aikido. but just like aikido there seems to be a little too much cooperation going on. plus the head guy looked fat & unfitComment
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LOL!
He does look fat doesnt he - cause he is!
I have seen some of their live speed stuff - it is very very fast. Quicker than most things - but i am from an internal arts background so i see fast work alot!!
But the training in systema is revolved mainly around building awareness and relaxation of the muscle groups so they can perform faster.
On that documentary (i assume you are talking about 'go warrior') Look at the spetz guys doing a demo on the bridge - they are working pretty much full speed.
what you must bear in mind is that this system is basically the one used By the Spetz special opporations unit. They are THE top special unit in the russia military with counter terrorism and close combat high on their list of jobs.
They needed a system that was effective, fast and efficient. Why would they choose a system that is not effectve??
Vlad was a unarmed combat instructor for the Spetz units, He also went on regular high risk assignments in Afganistan, bodyguarding etc. As with all highly skilled soldiers he doesnt particularly talk about his previous work. But there are photo's of him in Afganistan as part of spetz unit.
The system can be learned very quickly in the military environment where all of your time is dedicated to certain training. In civilian areas time is far more limited and thus the learning time is extended - but it is still a fairly rapid system to learn IMO.
Due to its focus on movement principles rather than specific techniques it trains the person to act instinctivley from reative responce rather than making them think of the best technique for the job then applying it. It also stresses pre emtive striking in many situations and we all know the advantage of that.
systema has, Stangup fighting, Ground fighting, Thowing, Locking, Knife fighting & defence, Knife Throwing, Stick Fighting and defence, Gun Disarming, Improvised Weapons, Mass attack statergy and pre emptive striking.
I would say that is a pretty complete art - alot more complete than the vast vast majority of Martial arts currently practiced.
Regards
ChrisComment
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