Systema

[krys]

plus the head guy looked fat & unfit

I'm not saying that one should look fat or unfit but one thing in rma is that you don't want your opponent to know you can fight.... Training under a russian instructor is also very very rough
as you would expect from a ma practiced by russian special forces...

[kiddbjj]

yeah it was Go Warrior that I watched but come on man, you can't say that the sh*t they were doing on the bridge was legit. to start with the attackers just stood there and let the dudes apply their techniques. NONE of the stuff that appeared on the show was even remotely close to actual real sparring with a resisting opponent. What about when the head dude put on the blindfold and defended against gun and knife attacks. Who the hell is going to put a gun against your head so you can feel the barrel and apply your defence, and those guys with the knives were going way slow. It's just another case of a group taking advantage of people with dillusions of martial grandeur. the chinese kung fu guys have been doing it forever.

[chris davis 200]

You surely can see the difference between a training excersise and actually combat.

The blindfold thing was to develop awareness - it was not a real fight!

All i am saying is that if the most elite soldiers of the russian army - who's primary roles include counter terrorism and close combat use this system - there MUST be a reason.

cheers
chris

[PghROSSgrl]

Hi, I'm new to this forum, also new to MA. I just wanted to respond because this caught my attention. I am training in ROSS, and I really like it! My trainer also has been teaching me FMA such as kali and silat. We have been doing this for 2 weeks now every day during lunch break. I feel like they work nicely together being that ROSS is very unstructered. I don't know much about Systema, but from what my ROSS instructor says, it takes a very untethered system like ROSS, and structures it, puts it in a little box, wich defies the very essence of what ROSS is. Once again, I'm just a baby in MA, I'm really not a valuable opinion, but I fiigured I'd jump in on this discussion and trade my two cents.
Thanks

[Thai Bri]

You surely can see the difference between a training excersise and actually combat.

The blindfold thing was to develop awareness - it was not a real fight!

All i am saying is that if the most elite soldiers of the russian army - who's primary roles include counter terrorism and close combat use this system - there MUST be a reason.

cheers
chris

Do me a favour Chris. How many arts claim to teach unarmed combat to elite military units?

[krys]

Hello PghROSSgrl,


I too train in filipino martial arts (Silat and Arnis) and ROSS, the 3 arts mix well...
I also practice SYSTEMA with my training partner and can't see much difference between ROSS and SYSTEMA... To my eyes SYSTEMA seems less structured but it may depend on the instructor who teaches the system. There is some competitivness between both camps but this will hopefully disapear.

[J Rockwell]

Avelloci, did you get a chance to check out the school near your house? If so, what was your experience?

I'm asking these questions out of genuine interest:

1. Has anyone (who was not themself a Systema practitioner) ever sparred against a Systema practicioner? What was it like?

2. Does anyone who trains in MMA, BJJ, wrestling, boxing, or thaiboxing also train in Systema? If so, do you find you are able to utilize the Systema aspect of your training under pressure?

I have seen quite a few Systema video clips on the web...and I can't say they impressed me with the viability of their techniques or their training methods. On the other hand, I have heard good things about V.V. in certain circles, so I'm trying to be careful before forming an opinion. Thanks,

Jeff

[PghROSSgrl]

Krys;
Thank you for responding to my post! My trainers comments on systema is really all I have to go on, however, from reading about it, it doesn't sound to different than ROSS. Perhaps, as you said, in time the two camps will lose that competiveness and appreciate one another. Today was day seven of my training, I have numbers 1 and 5 Hubuds under my belt, and I am working on innoculating incoming force vectors, learning my Prav, Yav, and Nav breathing. We did some knife work yesterday that came from Silat. I'm very excited about each day of training! My instructor and I are both full time in the Army Reserves, and we train during our lunch hour. I do have a question for you. I am having a hard time separating the Yav and Nav breathing, I feel like I am doing both the same way. Any suggestions?

[Thai Bri]

Can you practice the Prav, Yav and Nav in the Lav?

[krys]

1. Has anyone (who was not themself a Systema practitioner) ever sparred against a Systema practicioner? What was it like?

2. Does anyone who trains in MMA, BJJ, wrestling, boxing, or thaiboxing also train in Systema? If so, do you find you are able to utilize the Systema aspect of your training under pressure?

1. I've never sparred against pure systema practitioners so I cannot really answer your question, those I sparred against had a boxing-MT-french boxing-flipino ma background.

2.
I have practiced Sambo and BJJ as well as boxing for a while. I still practice boxing to complement TMA training and ROSS-SYSTEMA.

SYSTEMA-ROSS gives me a better understanding of body mechanics and helps me to stay relaxed while fighting. I am now able to punch harder it makes me quicker and also take more punishment. It gives me also a better control over my body and increases sensitivity which is usefull for grapling actually I am thinking of returning to sambo to see what happens.

[krys]

. I do have a question for you. I am having a hard time separating the Yav and Nav breathing, I feel like I am doing both the same way. Any suggestions?

There are many different silat system.... the one I study is a filipino familly system.
The only breathing I am training in at the momemt is assocated to dynamic tensioning in order (ROSS-SYSTEMA also use it), I am not sure of what you mean by Yav and Nav....

[PghROSSgrl]

Krys;

My trainer showed me some breathing excersize that are taught in ROSS, The PRAV breathing is to be done in the morning for 3 minutes and comes from the high frame, like dog panting. The YAV breathing from the chest, and that is to be practiced mid-day. The NAV breathing is deeper, and I have used in shock abosrbtion (when I absorb strikes directed to my chest and abdomen). I looked at Scott Sonnon's RMAXtv website, looking for more information, and I found where he has tapes and books that could help me. However, I was looking for a more immediate answer. You see, my problem is, I feel like when I try to do the 3 different breaths that the last two are exactly the same. I do these all standing. I'm just curiouse as to how someone else practicing ROSS actually does thier breathing, if thier might be something I am doing wrong if I am not feeling a difference of where my breaths are coming from. I hope that I don't sound completely stupid. If I clarified my question any, I hope that you'll be able to help. If not LOL I will have to wait until Tuesday and ask my trainer. Thanks.

Desiree

[avelocci]

I passed by the Systema school a couple days ago and went in for a quick look at what the place had to offer. The drills that the students were running were mostly "In this situation you do this and in that situation you do that." The instructor showed what the class thought to be some pretty good escapes and reversals. I thought that some of these techniques would be unreliable on a real attacker though, as you will not have the time to stop and think if the move is not quick and to the point, which some of them were not. I'm not saying that the place looked bad, it's just that if your really looking for self-defense you're better off with what someone like Geoff Thompson has to offer.

Sincerly,
Andrew Velocci

[CKD]

I know ROSS is effective so if Systema is like that then it would be interesting. There are some MMA fighters that train ROSS and speak highly of its methods. I heard the difference between Systema and ROSS was that ROSS had sambo groundfighting and that Systema had a bit less.

[krys]

PghROSSgrl the only breathing I use in ROSS is deep abdominal breathing.

I pratcice silat breathing at 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. , but there are two kinds of breathing a light sitting breathing (with a posture like the yoga lotus) to prepare the body followed by stand up deep abdominal breathing accompanied by dynamic tension exercises (ROSS also use dynamic tensioning), this really hurts....


CKD.
I didn't learn much ROSS-SYSTEMA groundfighting but heard both systems use combat sambo. The guy who told me that trains systema and combat sambo.
Actually Scott Sonnon (founder of AMEROSS) was the coach of the american sambo team and a top sambo competitor...

By the way there is another russian system, supposed to be very good : the Kadachnikov method.