Systema

[J Rockwell]

martin l, thanks for posting that. Coming from a similar background as you did, I am still fairly skeptical, but your post encourages me to keep an open mind.

Jeff

[martin l]

Systema is a complete art

[QUOTE=y masilov]There are many things that make Systema good

I absolutely agree with everything you have mentioned. Systema is just that, it is a "system". Everything is closely interrelated. It is a very complete method. It teaches you how to defend against attacks and how to make those attacks better. It teaches improvisational weaponry. The first class I watched, they were learning to fight with pens and magazines. It was very creative and effective and a lot of the ideas I had never thought of before.

I really like how many options they show you, even for getting out of simple holds. My girlfriend asked me if I was worried about learning so much that in a crisis I wouldn't know what to do, but it's just the opposite. The more I did, the less I had to think about my response. I sort of overloaded my brain until that instinct to copy the teacher or think of moves as "techniques" just disappeared. After about five classes, I was flowing very smoothly. Granted, I have been taking private lessons, but I train outside of class with my friends who do Muay Thai and BJJ and it works very well. In fact, they are going to be joining soon.

[CKD]

I have heard systema had very interesting groundfighting. Vasilev actually rolled with Dr. Jacques, a extremely skilled grappler. I have also heard many interesting stories of other bjj, thai boxing stylists, and mma people fighting Vasilev and getting beaten. I heard most Systema instructors have an opn chalenge policy.

[Mr. Gordo]

I have also heard many interesting stories of other bjj, thai boxing stylists, and mma people fighting Vasilev and getting beaten.

What are the names of the BJJ stylists that have been beaten by Vasilev?

[martin l]

Systema Ground Fighting

I don't know much about who Vladimir has beaten in challenges and I have never seen anything about an open challenge policy. I think that might be a bit inconsistent with the philosophy I've been exposed to from that camp. They are certainly very generous and willing to share. As for Dr. Brett Jacques, his complete article on Systema that was written for some grappling magazine is on Vladimir's web site. I have pasted a portion below for those that are interested. Jacques is obviously a well-respected grappler and this is what he had to say about training with Vladimir:

"I went up to interview this guy with an extremely negative bias. Hell, from some of the reports I had, this guy could whip Bruce Lee, Quaichang Kane, Jacob and the Angel, and Godzilla. Secret army this, secret technique that. The videos, well, the stuff looked fake. His training partners looked like they were taking dives. So, after talking with the Super Spec. Op. Warrior for nearly four hours, I found him to be one of the most genuine people I had ever met. His knowledge of all things martial was so comprehensive and so enlightening, I literally forgot to breathe and blink for hours at a time. We analyzed videotapes of other instructors from Russia and the U.S. (including mine). I discovered that he really enjoyed the study of movement and its real world application. He was not interested in sport fighting, just what works on the street or on the battlefield. I thought that this was all well and good. He could talk the talk, but could he walk the walk? I was soon to find out. It was time for Vladimir to teach his class.

We started class with several strange warm-up drills that culminated in exercises that pitted one man against another. I chose Vladimir. This skinny guy was strong. I was quite surprised by his strength, far beyond what I had expected. Next, he lectured his class about movement concepts and then demonstrated what he wanted them to work on. He came over to me so we could work in private. I told him before we began that I had seen his videos and that his stuff looked fake. I explained that I felt it would have a hard time working on the street. He smiled a big smile or was it an evil grin. He then said, "Let's test. You punch, kick whatever and I move." I launched a series of attacks varying from kick to shoot to punch. Although I never went all out, I didn't need to. This guy was amazing. He hit me from the most unpredictable angles. Each of the strikes was not a knockout blows, but they had odd effects that I couldn't and still can't explain. I could get inside and take him down, but the pain he induced made it an unlikely process to happen repeatedly. He was incredible at escaping. All in all, he was the real deal. We proceeded to work on knife defense, pressure points, bodyguarding ideas and most of all, relaxation. The ability to react and stay relaxed was paramount to success using Vladimir's method.

I had an outstanding time that became more enlightening as the class wound down to a close. So how do you describe such a method? Accounting for my training background, I would have to say that Vladimir's method of Russian Martial Art is best described as Drunken Silat or Inebriated Ba Gua or maybe Sloshed Aikido. Hell, how about pretty f****** amazing. However, a system is only good if you can teach it to others so they can use it. Can others learn it? If so, how long does it take to become proficient? Some of these questions were answered when I worked out with two of his students who have been with him at least two years. These guys were smooth and fluid, but not clones of Vladimir. They made the method work for them. This whole training experience created shock waves in my martial arts thinking. It would be well worth it for anyone to make a sojourn to Toronto (at any time of the year) to train at Vladimir's school.

I hope that answers some questions. The rest of the article has a very interesting interview. You should check it out.

[C Morales]

Tough Instructors

Drunken Ba Gua pretty much sums up my experience with Systema too. I'm joining this a bit late, but for the record, I've trained with a few of their instructors. In fact, the first time I went to the Toronto school, Jim King (who is quoted in this thread) was teaching. That guy was extremely tough. I also have two friends training in Toronto and one in Montreal and they are all very fit, very knowledgeable and very ready to go. I've done a lot of boxing and muay thai and they all gave me a run for my money. This seems like the real deal to me. I don't care much for their videos--I find them more like demonstrations than instructional and there are just too many little things to learn that don't come through, but every the guys I met from that camp were very nice and very serious. When I finish this semester in school, I plan on dedicating myself to some serious Systema study.

[chris davis 200]

Drunken Ba gua!

lol

Sounds like the sort of thing i do on a friday night out on the town!



Chris

[shinobi22]

Has anyone ever rolled with Sonnon? I realize that fighting in a school is just sport since its mutually consenting, so I realize his Sambo background would come into play. Anybody actuully train with the guy in person?

[chris davis 200]

Asked about the challange thing - someone from Vlad school responded with this

There have been guys who showed up at Club Vlad to try us out, and some yahoos have tried to sucker Vlad at a seminar. But there have never been any official "challenge matches" that I'm aware of. Nor does Vlad have a "Gracie" type of a challenge out there for any and all takers....

As for the how the 'tests' turned out... they skeptics left as converts.

cheers
Chris

[shinobi22]

Sonnon's guys said the same thing. A UFC champ elvis Sinosic tried to take it to him at a seminar in Australia and Sonnon shut him down hard. But I really dont care about the stories. Id like to hear a first hand account!

[CKD]

I have never heard of Sisonic trying to take it to Shonnon. But thats quite amazing if he could take him on. As for Shonnons grappling ability he has won international sambo tournaments, trains the U.S. team, and has worked with the Russian National boxing team. The open challenge thing with Systema is not like the Gracie challenge. Its mostly if you challenge a Systema instructor to spar he will do it. They promise not to post it on there website that they beat you also. I have heard very interesting stories about these but the people would only say the challengers first name.

[gong fu]

my uncle has taught me systema yes it is effective, i dont know wich art to compare it to, its very "to the point" like JKD, its all about relaxing and hitting with swiftness, it has alot of holds, the russian military and a few others use this style for combat situations, my uncle knows alot of Ex army guys from all over the world, and most of them dabble or practise in systema i would personally say its a very good combat tool, its very simply based, i see resemblance with systema and taiji, with open hand strikes and bieng relaxed, i would say check it out i like the style and concepts alot,



peace

[Eyegouge]

For how huge russia is i'd think there'd be more arts that come from there.