Native American martial arts

[Jeremy Lobdell]

It's definitely beautiful. I've lived in the 4 corners area for just over three years, and just moved to Hawaii from the S.E. part of Arizona, having lived there for 3 years. It's taken me a little while to adjust to the humidity again, but after living at almost a mile up in elevation, my wind is a lot better back at sea level.
My father-in-law is a retired BIA police officer for the Navajo Nation Police and was an Army MP. I learned a lot of Native MA from him and the rest of my wifes clan. Going hard is a way of life for their training.

[Ironpalm]

Going hard

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[Jeremy Lobdell]

We ( my wifes family and I) converted a Hogaan that was no longer used for ceremonies into a training hall, and all this along with 3 day sweats and Peyote, it made for some very interesting training, or at least I think it did. Can't really remember for sure, or maybe what I remember didn't exactly happen the way I think it did. It was definitely a lot of fun though.

[Ironpalm]

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[HtTKar]

there are arts that are strickly Native American

Good to know jeremy. I have siksika Blackfoot relatives, and many Iroquoi friends, unfortunatly none of them know a martial art. They can fight though, and brawl with the best of them. But it's just that...brawling. It's nothing that has been passed down to them, they learned it by fighting.
I dont know any indians that dont speak English as their first language. Even the PowWows are very americanized. I think that the weather around here kind of makes it more difficult for them to give up American way of life for what they once had. It can get -30 degrees here in the winter with many feet of snow from October to May. I guess it might be possible to find something around here, I just haven't seen anything yet. I think NA fighting arts might just be more prevalent in the south. I'm really interested in their clinchwork and groundwork, they must have the best.

[HtTKar]

Something should remain sacred, and untouched by the rest of the world. Most choose it to be this...I've just seen way too much ignorance as far as Native American culture goes in general

I also see a lot of crap out there trying to capitolize on native american arts, and ignorance in general, but I think that they should let people know their art before it's lost forever. I'm sure there are many tribes that cant speak a native language, know no native arts, and are being taken advantage of for being so poor. I think that by sharing their culture at least with eachother they can help each other out. A little culture goes a long way. A little off track, but knowing a couple good fighting songs makes soldiers more patriotic and tougher. Thats just a little music. I think there are a lot of indians trying to reconnect with their past, but are so isolated they cant. Really, if they dont spread their culture it will get overrun, at least in the north. only my opinion.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Good to know jeremy. I have siksika Blackfoot relatives, and many Iroquoi friends, unfortunatly none of them know a martial art. They can fight though, and brawl with the best of them. But it's just that...brawling. It's nothing that has been passed down to them, they learned it by fighting.
I dont know any indians that dont speak English as their first language. Even the PowWows are very americanized. I think that the weather around here kind of makes it more difficult for them to give up American way of life for what they once had. It can get -30 degrees here in the winter with many feet of snow from October to May. I guess it might be possible to find something around here, I just haven't seen anything yet. I think NA fighting arts might just be more prevalent in the south. I'm really interested in their clinchwork and groundwork, they must have the best.

It may be harder to find out specific info if your on the east coast as opposed to being out west. Things seem to be a lot more watered down (for lack of a better term) as tribes from that area were relocated a lot more than the ones out west who generally only had to move once. In addition, the east coast tribes issue a CIB (cirtificate of Indian Blood- kind of like a birth cirtificate) to people who may be only 1/8th or 1/16 blood from that tribe. The Navajo and Souix, as well as many others only recognize 1/4 blood or more as members of that particular nation. As far as ma training, it seams to be as styalized as asian martial arts. I personally have only seen 2, coming from the Dine (Navajo) and LaKota (Souix). My sister-in law's husband is full blooded Lakota, and they don't like being called Souix. As far as language goes, my wife didn't start to speak English until she was 8 years old, but her language is considered to be about the hardest of all Native American languages. It sure did help us in WW2. I'm not sure if speaking their own language would make a difference, I can't really speak Navajo, but I can understand it and have acted as a interpriter for my wifes Grandmother quite a bit when I lived on the Reservation.
I'm glad to see that you're interested in this, and didn't take any offense to my harsh remarks. They weren't directed at you. Good luck in your quest for knowledge, and please post if you have any other questions.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[HtTKar]

the east coast tribes issue a CIB (cirtificate of Indian Blood- kind of like a birth cirtificate) to people who may be only 1/8th or 1/16 blood from that tribe.

I'm not sure of all the tribes. The Iroquoi are matriarchial. The only way you are an Iroquoi is if your Mother was at least 50% Iroquoi. Sure you could only be 1/4 indian, but it only counts if it came from your mother. I have many friends that are over 50% Iroquoi, but because it came from their fathers side, they have no NA birth rights. The siksika were patriarchial and polygimous, so their birth rites are probably different.

[HtTKar]

The original 5 nations were never defeated by America, or moved off their land. I read somewhere that Americans tried to fight them and were greated by so many indians that the americans just turned around and walked home. These democratic nations were always feirsome, especially the Seneca (keeper of the western door).The terrain here can be very advantagious if you know how to use it. It would be very difficult to surround an army here in the mountians. Stil they do not have a martial art that I been priveledged to even hear about. I have a lot of respect for all the nations, and certianly did not find your remarks derogitory. Thank your for sharing your experience and providing hope.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Native American ma

You're right. Some tribes never formally surrendered and suffered under less than face to face battles. Blankets with small pox, slaughter of food supply, and blockade of trade routes were just a few ways that this was accomplished. I'm attempting to contact an old friend of mine. His name is Chester Brown. He's a board member of the IMAF and the owner of NAVASTICKS, a martial arts school in New Mexico. He's the only Dine (Navajo) I personally know who teaches publicly, but hopefully he has some sources, either in print or online, that I can forward to you.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[47MartialMan]

You're right. Some tribes never formally surrendered and suffered under less than face to face battles. Blankets with small pox, slaughter of food supply, and blockade of trade routes were just a few ways that this was accomplished. I'm attempting to contact an old friend of mine. His name is Chester Brown. He's a board member of the IMAF and the owner of NAVASTICKS, a martial arts school in New Mexico. He's the only Dine (Navajo) I personally know who teaches publicly, but hopefully he has some sources, either in print or online, that I can forward to you.
Mahalo, Jeremy

This will be a COOL post.....invite him over.

[Tom Yum]

Native American Fighting arts

I'm also very intrigued by the native American systems of fighting.

I would imagine that the native american fighting arts are basic, but effective since there were territorial disputes from time to time.

I read a book a few years back that was printed in the 1950's by Don Dreager called Secret Fighting Arts of the World. In it, he mentions a famous native american who had one technique that he would use again and again; it was an armbar move where he would parry his attackers push, punch punch or attempt to grab with one hand against the exposed wrist and strike beneath the elbow with the other; both strikes were opposing forces causing elbow dislocations and breaks.

Other than that, I have no clue but am very interested in knowing more about Native American culture.

[HtTKar]

Jeremy I cannot thank you enough for your efforts. Thank you.

Tom Yum;
Like I said, I can not find anything about NA martial arts. But if its history and culture that you look for, the site link below is packed full of information about the 6nations. Of particular interest is the link about Iroquois Oral Traditions and language and social songs.

http://www.nisk.k12.ny.us/birchwood/links/grade4links/Iroquois%20WebQuest%20HTML/iroq_webquest_links.html#history

[HtTKar]

It's been a while, and there are many new people on this forum.
Seeing if anyone else has information on where to start.

[Tant01]

http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/mainindex.html

The Peoples Path