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i was interested in the history of brazilian jiu jitsu so i went online and did a few searches to see what was the deal. i came across this one website that told a story of how helio first got into jj. it said that he was a frail and weak boy who was not permitted by carlos to participate in jj training. so instead he used to watch. one day carlos was not able to attend his teaching session and helio told the students that he had watched his brother and memorized the moves because he saw them in practice every day. he taught the students and from then on they trained under helio. now i was just wondering if anyone knows the validity of this story. the story sounds cool but i dont know if jj could be grasped at that level by visible means only. what do you guys think im only a newbie on the ground game. peace.
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Maybe Helio has that unique ability.Originally posted by THE ETERNAL VOW
Some guys only need to see a technique once to 'get it', some have to be shown several times just to grasp the fundamentals - hence a 'dojo' will have different level of practioners. -
Well that is the story and all his sons would say the same.
I think the son of the founder of Aikido had the same experience.
He kept watching his Dad because he was a sickly kid (asthma) and later on went on to teach etc...
However, I can understand how one can watch and grasp some aikido techniques: nothing physical and no sparring/fighting allowed.
But BJJ is a lot more physical than Aikido.
I think the Helio miracle has been exagerated/embellished: some kind of rivalry between brothers trying to undermine each other, I suspect. I mean Carlos was the main leader.Comment
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Please post a linkComment
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Just because Helio "was not allowed" by his big brother didn't mean his other brothers and maybe a buddy or two weren't messing with it on the side. I'm willing to put money on Helio doing a LOT of playing on the side, out of sight.
I'm willing to believe that Helio was not receiving formal training from Carlos, though that brother must have had some idea of what Helio was up to. (why else would a skinny little brother spend all day sitting around the damn dojo mats?) That doesn't take much away from Helio, IMHO. It's remarkable that he could refine the techniques and strategies so much on his own.Comment
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If you look at the family tree at bjj.org, it looks like Carlos had children with 6 women, but had only 3 wives. Well, maybe that explains why he had so many wives...Comment
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Aikido visuals
I don't believe you could watch Aikido and then perform it...
I don't believe you could watch and do any of them sufficiently to protect yourself.....;maybe if your an attacker and just like to surprise people w/ pure aggression...but not to learn a defence art.Comment
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yeah man ive read a biography on him and that seems to be what happened. when he took the class when carlos couldnt, after the class some of the students were telling carlos how good and different some techniques were shown by helio. carlos was a bit skeptical so helio said he would challenge any of carlos students. so he challenged carlos's most senior student and beat him. from that day on helio started to instruct all the time.Comment
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Helio Gracie
I have never met Helio in person, or have been privy to any insider info about him, but from what I read, electrorok is correct. In addition, Helio, was very frail as a child, and quite ill. He had to addapt his moves to utelize technique, as his strenth was poor, even by his own admission. I do believe he was able to pick up his art by watching, as his family lived and breathed it. And if you've ever had older brothers and cousins, you end up training and getting used for training, if you want to or not!
Mahalo, JeremyComment
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Originally posted by Jeremy Lobdell
I have read the same thing. However, I think youy have to read between the lines I find it very difficult to believe that someone who was so sickly that the doctor warned of any physical exertion beyond walking could, with any physical training (tore/uke), teach advanced classes much less feel so confident that he could challenge the best student. Now I do believe that he did accomplish all of the things he stated but it is the Gracie spin on the story I question. I am not taking anything away from Helio, but as you state I am sure that he had to roll with someone brothers or friends there is another part to the story. Just like in the early UFC when Rorion claimed that the Gracies were undefeated for 65yrs. You look at the history and you think "hmmmmm........when did thier clock start" first its well Gracies lost but only to BJJ which they created(uhhh...ok). Anyway that's another subject, just my 2 centsComment
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Helio Gracie
I agree with you, IPON, that you should take anything written with a grain of salt and concider the source, not just buying it hook, line, and sinker. When reading the individual interview, I also questioned the doctor thing, with these conclusions, this was medical services in Brazil at a time when Helio was a child. I'm not discrediting the Brazilian medical community, but diagnostic equipment, here in the US was poor ,or nonexistant at that time. Most doctors opperated under the belief if something hurt, don't do it. It is very possible that the doctor was unable to properly diagnose Helio's problem, and increased exercise and boosted metabolism cured it, along with growth, which is very common in childhood illness. This, along with the evolution of the Gracie diet, concentrating on ph balance in the body and in the food eaten, may have contributed as well. This is all speculation, but so is everything else. It should be concidered to help make a personal conclusion.
Mahalo, JeremyComment
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