The Best Self Defense System to study ?

[TekXombie]

Personally I've been looking around for effective forms for a while. Karate, TKD and TSD all seemed too impractical. Kickboxing I liked but there was more emphasize on power than anything. Hapkido didn't seem all that great, pressure points never work in street fights, mainly because of adrenaline and a clouded mind. Kung Fu seemed cool, but a lot of the trapping styles have trouble keeping people in trapping distance. The two I've found personal that are most effective in combination are the two I've started studying full time, Krav Maga and BJJ. Krav Maga works on relfex, it isn't over complicated where you pinpoint small little pressure points and it works on gross motor reflexes and skills. When your blood pressure reaches about 160, which happens in street fights, your strength, speed and gross motor functions increase while your mind and your fine motor functions fail. Anything that requires precision generally doesn't work. Krav Maga works on reflex and large areas of attack and simple defense, making it really effective, it isn't strength or power based either. BJJ is extremely important in that the majority of times in a fight, you either end up in a clinch or somehow end up in the ground. Knowing effectively how to deal with someone in a situation like that is extremely important and the fact that BJJ focuses on gross motor functions helps a lot. Complicated wrist locks and the like just don't work. Look in any book on self defense that's truly on top of it's game, they'll tell you the same thing. Now certainly in a fight with one or more opponents, you wouldn't purposely take them to the ground but hell, if someone clinched up with your or threw you to the ground, wouldn't you want to know how to quickly and effectively end it and compose yourself again as quick as possible? Grappling, wrestling even, are extremely effective in a fight. I'm sorry, but I've never seen any street fight where both guys stand there and take shots on each other standing up, it just doesn't happen. Even though alot of forms have things they can't use in sparring because of the danger to the training partner, those aren't really all that effective either. If it's too dangerous to practice to get down by reflex then it's pretty much useless because everything you're going to use in a fight is reflex based. I mean if you think about it, it's really the original reason Judo was created, Kano took out the really dangerous techniques and put in the effective ones that could be practiced the easiest without harm to one another and the result was his students were much more proficient because they had practiced their techniques more often and knew how to apply them to a resisting opponent. It all leads back to why katas (sp?) seem to not work, you can practice them in the air and on a willing opponent, but do you know how much pressure or how hard you have to go to use that technique in a real fight againt a resisting opponent? One reason BJJ practioners are so good is because they practice constantly by rolling with each other, they understand how to bait, how to use it against someone who's fighting back and they have a feel for the moves a lot more than someone standing there kicking and punching in the air. Besides a lot of the time most people who win fights are those who have the most endurance and can last longer and BJJ and Krav Maga students showcase some of the greatest endurance I've ever seen. Learning how to fight isn't a cakewalk, it's like dieting, there's no quick solution to learning, you have to work hard and make sure you're in good shape, anything can happen in a fight and everyone has a chance to beat you but KM and BJJ certainly can help and it just goes to show, pure technique beats pure strength. But like my Krav Maga and BJJ instructors always say, if you can't do it in a moments notice or practice the maneuver with a resisting opponent, the technique is almost useless in a self defense situation.


Just my view, but hey, it's mine, right?

[medic06]

BJJ is extremely important in that the majority of times in a fight, you either end up in a clinch or somehow end up in the ground.

Whoah, I think I'll try for the clinch Had to pick on you for that one. . . .

Just want to say a few things:

1. Hapkido consist of more than pressure points. If that's all u got out of Hapkido is how to pinpoint pressurepoints, then you got robbed. . .

2. All martial arts are based on what u called 'reflex'. It's developed by numerous repetitions. The ol' school way of getting in these endless repetitions is. . . . . KATA!!!!!! The whole idea is to practice until you can perform a technique without thinking about it. It makes application much, much easier. . . .

3. Complex wristlocks don't work, that's why you use the simple ones and don't make them so complex

4. It's a bad idea to go against resistance if you don't have the basic techniques down. It's like being thrown into the deep end of the pool. It becomes sink or swim, not the best way to learn. Start with little resistance and build up to full resistance.

5. use common sense. If someone tells me they can knock me down from across the room, then I would be skeptical. If they tell me that if they stab me in the heart I'll problably die, then I'll take their word for it.

[jubaji]

He said it was an extreme example, :

An extremely stupid example

[GrayGhost]

Wow you think Modern Arnis and Kali is an effective MA. If you've ever been in a knife fight then you know there is no such thing as a knife fight. there are only knife attacks. Those system teach an unrealistic knife fighting. A simple class in Krav Maga will teach you how to defend against a knife attack. If you've ever been in a fight then you'd know that against one person BJJ or Judo or wrestlting is the most effect MA. Fighting a group is western boxing.

[koto_ryu]

My current art doesn't use kata at all either, but I personally think it's an excellent way of training. Nowadays, however, nobody wants the dedication and training of the old, they want it all quickly so they settle for the McDojo "reality self defense" teachers who all claim to have taught Navy SEALs, Green Berets, and SWAT teams. I used to be all about that myself, but now I find there's a great deal of satisfaction in doing and learning things in the traditional way. The dedication to an art form is one of the many things that separate a true martial artist from just a skilled brawler.

[Broadsword2004]

Naaa, I disagree somewhat, the dedication to an art form is true, but that means studying something else that is an art form. If you want to be a martial artist, you learn to fight effectively. You just train very much because you are training in something you must master. But katas/forms or no kata/forms, martial arts are martial arts.

If you practice fighting, with weapons and empty-handed, standing and/or grappling, if you practice it solely for fighting, you are a martial artist if you are training to truly master the techniques you're learning. If you throw forms into the mix, that is fine as long as it doesn't degrade your fighting training, however, forms are NOT martial arts. They're martial-performance arts. I would train flashy kicks and wushu and such because those are art forms too, but they are art forms purely, not for fighting.

Oh, and fighting multiples is NOT just Western boxing, it is kicking AND punching, and striking, and chokes, and hitting one guy so hard and fast that it scares the crap out of the others. Fighting a single person should be the same I think, however, and is NOT just wrestling or judo; those arts don't take into account things like biting and eye gouging, and such; also, the ground itself can be a dangerous place.

Karate mixed with Western boxing is the most effective martial art I have seen for basic fighting if you ignore the kata, because you learn to kick hard and fast, how to fight multiples, you get great conditioning, you learn how to punch and maneuver properly, and karate has basic groundfighting in it (though many dojos don't teach that). Combined with Western boxing, and a good karate person is an extremely good all-around fighter pretty much; granted they may lose a grappling match against a trained grappler, but against most people, they will have the upper-hand.

[Broadsword2004]

If you want decent "kata" training, in my opinion, just do gymnastics, as it will give you far more coordination, speed, balance, flexibility, etc....in the long run. Remember, the modern sport of gymnastics evolved off of the physical training that knights used to do to keep in top condition. Track & field were a part of gymnastics 'till like the 50's I think, when they decided to separate the track and field from gymnastics.

You are right though, no one wants the hard training of the old days. I always loved the hard training though.

[jubaji]

I think, however, and is NOT just wrestling or judo; those arts don't take into account things like biting and eye gouging, and such; also, the ground itself can be a dangerous place.

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[jubaji]

You should have read my post further, "But, I bet the student in the 3 day crash course wouldn't be very good." Context, context, context.

Boxing = 2 staight punches, 2 hook punches, 2 uppercuts, slip, duck, step and slide, elbow and knee blocks, arm parries.

Wrestling = leg pick, hip throw, sprawl, cross face, snapdown, sprawl defense, front headlocks, front headlock escapes.

BJJ = closed guard, open guard, low guard pass, high guard pass, triangle choke, arm bar, omaplata, kimura, americana, mount, scarf hold, cross body, tturtle, turtle escape, reverse scissor lock, knee and elbow escapes, reversals--upa, rolling left, rolling right, rolling forward, rolling under. Submission defense: prevent leverage of limb ie. stop it from moving. Choke defense: stop choke, look up, comb your hair. (actually BJJ should be taught as 3 principles of grappling and 2 princples of submissions--then you can derive the entire system).

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Shoot=fuckin' moron

[medic06]

A simple class in Krav Maga will teach you how to defend against a knife attack.

. . . and that would be the technique of "how to get stabbed and killed in under 10 seconds. . . ."

[medic06]

My current art doesn't use kata at all either, but I personally think it's an excellent way of training. Nowadays, however, nobody wants the dedication and training of the old, they want it all quickly so they settle for the McDojo "reality self defense" teachers who all claim to have taught Navy SEALs, Green Berets, and SWAT teams. I used to be all about that myself, but now I find there's a great deal of satisfaction in doing and learning things in the traditional way. The dedication to an art form is one of the many things that separate a true martial artist from just a skilled brawler.

LOL, my teacher (may he R.I.P.) was a member of the Army Special Forces so I guess he could lay claim to teaching a few. He always stressed that fights are very ugly and brutal and to never expect things to go the way you want them to go. The right mindset and simple effective, adaptable techniques are required to win.

[GrayGhost]

how is it a course of getting stabbed in or killed it 10 seconds or less? Krav Maga doesn't teach you how swing you arms like a nut and 'Knife Fight". It teaches you to disarm your opponent.

[GrayGhost]

Broadsword I see your point. I quote you

"...is NOT just Western boxing, it is kicking AND punching, and striking, and chokes, and hitting one guy so hard and fast that it scares the crap out of the others."

In multiple opponets you don't take time to choke one of the guys and you can't really kick all that effectivly in a bar. So take out those two elements and you have western boxing. Now out in the parking lot you could kick. So I guess instead of western boxing I should of said Kickboxing.

And you are right about the eye gouging. I'll give you credit for that one.

[medic06]

OH, and you think kali has no disarms? I've found that most arts that do not train regularly with edged weapons has some pretty sorry knife defense (and I'm including my art in there as well).

have you ever gone against someone who is really trying to cut you, be it real or in a senario?

There is no simple one class that will prepare you for it.

[EmptyneSs]

i say western boxing and muay thai are good for self defense because even though they arent self defdense arts, they build attributes that will help u increase ur chances of defending urself well better than a lot of arts. fast reflexes, good eye hand coordination, awesome footwork, balance, the ability to parry, agility, endurance, efficient movements, and speed are all skills that are awesome for self defense. also muay thai and boxing force a person to become tenacious, tough, and not intimidated by others because u have to trade blows with people all the time when u spar.


also judo is great for self defense even though it isnt a self defense art. everyone likes to say most fights end up on the ground, but judo greatly increases ur chances of not going to the ground. judo dominates the clinching range. also in case u do go to the ground, judos newaza offers more than enough groundwork to be able to finish someone on the ground. judo newaza contains alot of escapes, pins, positioning,restraining holds, reversals and counters with many modifications in addition to arm locks and chokes.


judo + mt/boxing = pwnage