Lets Make It Official

[BryanS]

fights in high school and right after ages 17-19 were all standing up then whoever got knocked down first got the crap kicked out of his face, when i started training again 20-23 all fights since then have been dodging sucker punches and elbows and knees, the one fight that did go to the ground after i learned to grapple involved me getting the mount and pounding his face

[Tant01]

There was a top Judo guy called 'Georges Medhi' that taught ppl like Mario Sperry, Rickson Gracie etc He too would say "no point getting your clothes dirty if can finish the fight on your feet".

I must agree here, I've been a (very) minor Judo player since I was a teenager. I ramped it up some in the Navy with a bit of old school waza and took the Atemi out for some informal OJT. It works just fine for me. I didn't vote because I think it's pointless. And I don't really care...

[jules]

I think that the grapplers are talking about "one on one" situations. Granted the way things are (especially in the US) where boys have just lost the sense of honor are afraind to take people on "one on one". As for BJJ and the Gracies (early UFC's): First the only rule in the first UFC was no eye-poking. Second... Well the Gracies are a gigantic clan and they had enough family/friends around to make sure that the fights were 1:1. A great example of this is the story about how Royler and Rickson were surfing and ran into some sufers, one of the surfers talked smack and started a fight with Royler. Royler then choked the guy out and when the surfer woke up he wanted a piece of Royler again so Royler choked him out 2 more times. Interesting little story. Now what alot of people don't know is that while Royler was going 1:1 with the sufer his Rickson was swinging his surfboard to keep the other surfers away.

[jubaji]

Granted the way things are (especially in the US) where boys have just lost the sense of honor are afraind to take people on "one on one". .

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[HtTKar]

Jules, I thought you were from South Africa?

True boys have no honor. Thats what separates boys from men.

[jules]

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what's so confusing about that? Back in the day boys and men were willing to fight one on one with their bare hands. Now, little punks think they are a man when they jump on a person.

[Ronson]

It's not just a U.S. thing when it comes to "puttin' up the dukes" and fighting like a man and one-on-one. It's more like an "old school" thing. These days (holy shit! am I really gonna say this like my Father?) boys are not being taught these values. It was a code amongst my friends growing up that throwing down, win or lose, was the only way to get your respect. If someone challenged one of us to fight, the person would get more respect fighting and losing than not fighting at all. It was worse to be considered a "pussy" than losing some fight because at least anyone else looking to start shit knew that they couldn't posture and bluff a challenge and would sure as hell get a fight.

[jubaji]

what's so confusing about that? Back in the day boys and men were willing to fight one on one with their bare hands. Now, little punks think they are a man when they jump on a person.

What's confusing is how you think its reasonable to make such categorical statements.

[Tom Yum]

It's not just a U.S. thing when it comes to "puttin' up the dukes" and fighting like a man and one-on-one. It's more like an "old school" thing. These days (holy shit! am I really gonna say this like my Father?) boys are not being taught these values. It was a code amongst my friends growing up that throwing down, win or lose, was the only way to get your respect. If someone challenged one of us to fight, the person would get more respect fighting and losing than not fighting at all. It was worse to be considered a "pussy" than losing some fight because at least anyone else looking to start shit knew that they couldn't posture and bluff a challenge and would sure as hell get a fight.

Sounds like the honor of a duel. Its a code that only works if both guys understand the rules. Usually, both guys eventually solve their differences and become buddies. It happens, then its done and then your off to the bar to get a beer and talk it over.

Some people go crazy though and that's when it makes the evening news.

[Hikage]

What's confusing is how you think its reasonable to make such categorical statements.

I think what he's referring to is the inner-city culture, more so than young culture as a whole. The mentality of the inner city culture, in the US, tends to lean towards this philosophy of fight to win and win big. Many of my students come from inner city Baltimore and I've conversations with numbers of them as well as witnessed first hand their brutality (and these are middle schoolers).

Just a month ago I was involved in breaking up a fight that was a 3 on 2 between girls where one of them had brough in a pair of barber's shears. Ironically, she dropped them and had them used on her. This was no school yard fight, this was a bloodbath to the death. After they cut the girl from forehead to cheek and she was bleeding completely down her visage, they knocked her over and pulled/yanked her along the floor by her hair, leaving a foot-wide trail of blood.

No longer do you see the fight until one person is the clear victor and it ends. In order to avoid future harassment, you need to win big and make everyone fearful of you. Make 'em think you're crazy and they'll leave you alone. I liken it to the BCS polls in college football. In order to stay on top, you need to beat the little teams by 30, 40, 50 points inorder to impress the pollsters. You can't just win.

But you're right Jubaji. To say that all young culture, or even that all those who live in the inner city behave this way is a gross stereotype and is the footstep to racism.

-Hikage

[Tom Yum]

Few young people realize this and as many are subject to such propaganda they foolishly suck it up.

Uh huh, and that explains why you wear that heavy set gold chain with that giant clock hanging from it...jj.

Seriously, great point. People soak up that culture because everyone else does.

You don't see many teens aching to hear John Coltraine, listen to some of Beethoven's works or go nutz to Pancho Sanchez. Sadly, many teens do not read the good Book (or any book for that matter).

Some do.

[47MartialMan]

Iwas born and raised in New Orleans. Brawls and street confrontations rarely went to the ground. Unless someone was fell there unconscious.

[academian]

I would say that 90% of fights end with one person on the ground knocked out

[cultninja]

hm.. one punch

i've heard a lot of times that most fights end up on the ground. well i dont really agry. I've seen many fights , and in that fights the it ends on the first 2 successfull punches , then the guy who had taken the punches hits the ground the other one is above him hammering with pucnhes. thats all.!!!! thats not a ground fight, the other guy is not fighting he is just shocked full of blood in his face wandering whats happening! 80 percent of the fights are the same. when grappling is applied many people jump on them to tear them apart or just support their guy. so grappling is bullshit in realfighting! ufc is bullshit so is bjj . i mean its a good art but not between those guys i've fought. they grab chairs bottles and whatever is hard and hit you in the face... i've practiced martial arts since 8 . i started with karate and then when i was teenager i trained in thai boxing with some grappling included and now im studying wingchun. well i can say that wingchun fighting strategie is the best i've seen . you dont need fancy grappling , and high kicks , and all the other shit. its simple , put a finger in the eye, hit him on the neck real hard, hit him on the balls , hit him on the ears(With aprorpriete technique) use everything in the surounding. thats real fighting that i've learned in wing chun grappling is shit if u take his eye out. or if hit him hard in several painfull spots. well thats all i have to say... keep your ass of the ground, as many times i have fallen down i got my ass kicked pretty bad i dont even want to remember it! i say in a fight use everything you can.

sorry for my english

[academian]

wing chun?!

Become proficent in a grappling art and see if you still think the same way I have trained in wing chun and aikido/jujutsu. both styles have their time and place sure wing chun may leave them blind ,crippled and unable to attack but the lawsuits and criminal charges wont be pretty at least you will get alot of fighting experience in prison and if you tried that in there they would just gang up on you and stab you about fifty billon times. My point is extreme force is not always the answer. Self defence is hard to prove unless of course they have a knife or a gun and you could still get shot if you applied any of the techniques that you mentioned. But you might be able to get out of the path of the bullet long enough to execute a restraining hold and take control of the weapon if you learn those skills to suppliment your wing chun. I would recomend learning chin na to go with your wing chun they work good togather.