Freindly JeetKuneDo vs. Kyokusin Karateka

[brokenelbow]

yea jkd is str8

How so? Do all JKD people go out on the streets and fight and win all of the time?

Biting and gouging all work well.

Sure they do but who the hell are you fighting?

if the fight becomes a wrestle then trapping is the way to go.

How so? If trapping was the bomb wouldn't you see it in fights to counter the wrestlers?

[EGstudent]

My sifu trained in kyokushin karate, but he is a full instructor in JKD, Kali, and Silat under Guru Dan Inosanto. Also, Kyokushin lacks foul tactics.

[Rank7]

Trapping is not for the novice

[ready]

The guy who worked the door is right about going 2 the floor in a real fight, it can get u in big trouble. Thats not 2 say it hasnt got its place, it is vital 2 b comfortble on the floor but not in a sporting fashion(and it is excellent for strength and stamina). If you do end up on the floor GET UP before his pals start practicing penalty kicks at your head. If you really think u can roll around on the floor like people do in mma's your r under some serious deception and need 2 wake up, on the street there r no rules and if you go down u better make sure you dont get caught in the sports mentality of fighting.

[brokenelbow]

Trapping is not for the novice

Yeah, fighters like Ortiz and Belfort are novices.

Also, Kyokushin lacks foul tactics.

Matt Thorton is proved correct again.

[georgie]

!

hmmm.
both good arguments but id have to agree with the guy on the door. ive seen too many group fights outside of clubs and can end up 2 on 1 on the ground. ortiz would be in trouble with 2 on 1 on the ground. not even a gracie could find this one easy. but knowing what to do on the floor can be very helpful if it happens which it may. id say train more for upright mobility than groundfighting (80 to 20% more) for real life combat. things like eye gouges,knees and elbows are extremely effective as you say, as well vunak teaches every range there is which i think is vital to being a sucessful streetfighter. mr. broken elbow has a point a long as he knows the priority of each range. grappling as a last resort and upward combat as a first.

[EGstudent]

I vote for JKD

[Gambit]

I vote JKD.

one who seeks:

Defence against grabbing of the wrist may not have any application what so ever for someone like you or me, but for women it surely is.

Women are generally not as aggressive, and if they ever find them selfs in self defence situation it will probably be from a man who wants to rape her, who is an abusive ex-boyfriend or what not.

Most men have a hard time hitting a women, both because it goes against everything that the society teaches, but also because he will probably feel superior. He will feel she is no thread, and the rapist will frag her off to some quiet place, the ex back to the apartment.

I'd say JKD would win in the street, kyokushin in the ring...of course by their rules, otherwise, JKD again.

[wardancer]

rules of survival. but in this thread itll be freindly

What rules?????
Kyokushin Karatekas do bare knuckles (not the head but the rest of the body), kick the rest from toes to head) in full contact competition but no hold are allowed.
They do not care about about point systems, if no one get KO, they will give the decision to the lighter fighter.
In case, they are the same weight, they will count the number of wooden plates they broke to qualify to the quater finals.
Oh, did I forgot to tell you Kyokushin fighters have to do breaking wooden plated just to qualify for a tournament: sometimes they end up hurting so bad they have to 'quit' the later fight.
Most top Kyokushin fighters fight in the ring a la K1 and are well versed in punching the crap out of the opponent head.
Saying Kyokushin fighters do hit the head due to competition rules is like saying a Judo Olympic fighter does not know how the strangle the crap out of you!

[HtTKar]

Defence against grabbing of the wrist may not have any application what so ever for someone like you or me, but for women it surely is.

Wrist grab releases are best for when your messing with your drinking buddies. They start messing around, you stick your arm out baiting them to grab your wrist in their feeble attempt to tackle you. And you put them down. So they work if the other person is drunk and has no idea of whats going on. But really, have you ever tried a wrist grab release on someone intent on hurting you? I'll tell you they dont work, people can easily spin, tighten up, or punch you.

Woman are generally weaker than the men trying to rape them, so its not a very valid technique for that kind of situation.
Also, in those situations, its not the hand thats grabbing you that you should be worried about. The other hand is probably in position to KO you.

Most men have a hard time hitting a women, both because it goes against everything that the society teaches,

And rapists obviously do not care about hurting woman. What would prevent them from knocking a woman out, or into a bloody mess. Believe me it happens all the time.

Woman need to know how to attack and hurt. Forget about grab releases, choke releases, etc. First thing they should know is how to hurt their attacker as quickly as possible, then how to escape. Once they are confortable with that, then you can teach them some fancy techniques.

[wardancer]

Wrist grab releases are best for when your messing with your drinking buddies. They start messing around, you stick your arm out baiting them to grab your wrist in their feeble attempt to tackle you. And you put them down. So they work if the other person is drunk and has no idea of whats going on. But really, have you ever tried a wrist grab release on someone intent on hurting you? I'll tell you they dont work, people can easily spin, tighten up, or punch you.

Woman are generally weaker than the men trying to rape them, so its not a very valid technique for that kind of situation.
Also, in those situations, its not the hand thats grabbing you that you should be worried about. The other hand is probably in position to KO you.



And rapists obviously do not care about hurting woman. What would prevent them from knocking a woman out, or into a bloody mess. Believe me it happens all the time.

Woman need to know how to attack and hurt. Forget about grab releases, choke releases, etc. First thing they should know is how to hurt their attacker as quickly as possible, then how to escape. Once they are confortable with that, then you can teach them some fancy techniques.

You have a good point until you roll in BJJ.
However, in your case getting a gun because MA skills cannot defeat a bigger person: point taken! And you have not seen the first UFCs either!

[wardancer]

Wrist grab releases are best for when your messing with your drinking buddies. They start messing around, you stick your arm out baiting them to grab your wrist in their feeble attempt to tackle you. And you put them down. So they work if the other person is drunk and has no idea of whats going on. But really, have you ever tried a wrist grab release on someone intent on hurting you? I'll tell you they dont work, people can easily spin, tighten up, or punch you.

Woman are generally weaker than the men trying to rape them, so its not a very valid technique for that kind of situation.
Also, in those situations, its not the hand thats grabbing you that you should be worried about. The other hand is probably in position to KO you.



And rapists obviously do not care about hurting woman. What would prevent them from knocking a woman out, or into a bloody mess. Believe me it happens all the time.

Woman need to know how to attack and hurt. Forget about grab releases, choke releases, etc. First thing they should know is how to hurt their attacker as quickly as possible, then how to escape. Once they are confortable with that, then you can teach them some fancy techniques.

Sorry to respond so quick, my fault.
GRAB WRIST do not work either, it is useless!

[HtTKar]

However, in your case getting a gun because MA skills cannot defeat a bigger person: point taken! And you have not seen the first UFCs either!

I have seen the first UFC's, I dont remember any woman or rape victims. I also think guns are the last possible choice to take. Which makes them useless for most situations. Most woman are raped by someone they know. They are not going to shoot them dead on the spot. They need to have other options. They need to know that they can handle themselves in almost any situation.

You have a good point until you roll in BJJ.

What do you mean?

[Tom Yum]

All other methods of fighting have lesser alphabet than no rules! No rules fighting has greater alphabet than rules fighting, so no rules wins.

Note: All of this has been taught to me by Master Dong, Long Duck of the 16 Candles system of Fighting!!!

GO DONGER, GO!!!!!

[wardancer]

I have seen the first UFC's, I dont remember any woman or rape victims. I also think guns are the last possible choice to take. Which makes them useless for most situations. Most woman are raped by someone they know. They are not going to shoot them dead on the spot. They need to have other options. They need to know that they can handle themselves in almost any situation.



What do you mean?

Ok we are getting off topic.
But if there is one MA that can be usefull versus rape is BJJ.
It is a submission ground fight style that has techniques for a smaller fighter to defeat a heavier fighter.
Every Bjj classes end up with sparring (rolling), which means each students will spar with bigger/smaller partners until one submits with no stoppage from a third party.
Because it always starts on the ground, I think it gives the best training for a female versus a rapist.