BJJ'ers: How long did it take?

[shamster]

For all the bjj'ers here, how long till you were able to really start tapping people out? I've been training for about 4 months, and while I feel I've learned quite a bit since starting, I still can't get anyone to tap in class (though I've come close a few times). I can definitely defend myself better now and feel comfortable on the ground. Things were definitely awkward at first and I was apprehensive when I started out. However, I still can't seem to sink in any submissions on anyone in my class.
It's probably cause I'm the newest one among them and even though I am improving slowly, so are they. Do most people here get good enough to eventually tap out more advanced students on occasion, or is it just a matter of waiting for a newer beginner to come along before you can see your submissions work in action?

[Tant01]

Students at our local academy often go to other sources for techniques to try on their fellow students. Grappling magazines and on line sources often have neat little tricks to submit yout "opponent" from unusual positions and even have step by step instructions to set them up. While your friends are all working on the basic curriculum you can be reading up on leg locks from the half gaurd... Just a thought, stick with it, you'll make em tap in due time.

[Penance]

Tap their brain. Like Tant said, read magazines and sites or try to devise your own techniques. Even if they suck and don't work...that's a GREAT opportunity to give your opponent the chance to share their knowledge with you.

If you try to do a weird ankle twist from the guard or something and it doesn't work, after the round say "Yeah, I saw your ankle open and I tried to go for something, it didn't really feel right though, what's a good way to go after that kind of opporunity?" At worst they'll say "I don't know", at best you'll learn a new technique and make better friends =)

[shamster]

Actually, I tried a few things I learned outside class. It worked a little, but not to the full effect.
Last night, I actually tried a shin choke when I had someone in my guard. It did make him uncomfortable, but I wasn't able to get him to submit.

I sometimes think things don't work that well unless you practice them over and over.

[Tant01]

Actually, I tried a few things I learned outside class. It worked a little, but not to the full effect....

...I sometimes think things don't work that well unless you practice them over and over.

Stick with the fundamentals for now and it will come to you. The thing is you are still new to the game and these other students should be helping you progress with tips and pointers along the way. If not then you need to ask them, "Was my technique improper or was it just too slow?" (for example?) They have been playing it for some time longer than you so they are working on the counters and escapes from these holds? They likely know what's comming from you and so work to avoid it before you have them properly conditioned for your transition into the given technique... Tricks to trap your opponents and good feints or setups are at least as important as knowing how to do it... Watch them practice and you will see how they fake and trick one another to get one to make a mistake that they can take advantage of.


2c.

[JaredExtreme]

I was in your situation when I first started BJJ. I had no grappling experience whatsoever and I think it took me about 6 months before I ever got a submission. To be honest, it really depends on who you train with. At that BJJ dojo everyone there had at least a year's worth of experience on me and no new guys ever joined. However, when I would go to my college's judo club I could tap a lot of people out on the ground (after I was thrown of course ).

Now I attend a different BJJ dojo and have close to 2 years of total BJJ experience. I'm still a white belt but now I can tap most of the other white belts and some blues belts at my school.

Experience and mat time is what really counts. I'm sure right now the blue belts at your school seem godly, but if you give yourself a year, you'll be giving them a run for their money.

[Ronson]

Mat time will make the difference. And it's true, that while you're progressing, the others higher than you are aswell.

Before you start tapping guys at your club, you're gonna have to learn to achieve and hold positional dominance as well as escapes.

What you'll find is that you'll tap alot, but before you know it it will progress to guys taking longer to tap you, then you start drawing with them, and one day you'll catch someone - but don't make a big deal in front of everyone (it's frowned upon, just smile a big smile inside)

[wardancer]

Tap their brain. Like Tant said, read magazines and sites or try to devise your own techniques. Even if they suck and don't work...that's a GREAT opportunity to give your opponent the chance to share their knowledge with you.

If you try to do a weird ankle twist from the guard or something and it doesn't work, after the round say "Yeah, I saw your ankle open and I tried to go for something, it didn't really feel right though, what's a good way to go after that kind of opporunity?" At worst they'll say "I don't know", at best you'll learn a new technique and make better friends =)

LOL, you used the wrong exemple..
Leg locks as a beginner in a BJJ class is so RUDE!
YOu are unlikey to succeed from learning from a magazine but it is so dangerous to your training partner, you should practice the basics first.

[wardancer]

For all the bjj'ers here, how long till you were able to really start tapping people out? I've been training for about 4 months, and while I feel I've learned quite a bit since starting, I still can't get anyone to tap in class (though I've come close a few times). I can definitely defend myself better now and feel comfortable on the ground. Things were definitely awkward at first and I was apprehensive when I started out. However, I still can't seem to sink in any submissions on anyone in my class.
It's probably cause I'm the newest one among them and even though I am improving slowly, so are they. Do most people here get good enough to eventually tap out more advanced students on occasion, or is it just a matter of waiting for a newer beginner to come along before you can see your submissions work in action?

It will take time..
I am in the same position, just keep attending and do not bother about tapping out. It is just part of the process.
Let's put it that way: your BJJ club is your team and you are part of the team to train and compete, some members are more advanced and some are learners. The weekly training is just to prepare to the competition when you get to fight the other white belts from other clubs.
BJJ is a team sport because you need rolling partners.
The strongest your team members are the more you tap.
But likely such good standard will raise your game.
Which means the more successfull, you will be in competition.
It is ironic but the strongest your team is, the more you are likely to tap!
Actually if you tap your team mates within 6 months of BJJ training, I would be CONCERNED about the quality of such BJJ team.

[Penance]

LOL, you used the wrong exemple..

Hey, thanks for the advice. (Not being sarcastic) I had never heard that but it makes sense. See, the school I go to is very informal, so informal that no one has bothered to teach me any etiquette. My instructor knew I had no grappling experience, yet he has never even formally shown me the different positions (mount, side mount, guard, etc). From reading sites and watching videos I already had an "okay" knowledge about them, but I've been having to learn etiquette piece meal from the other students.

[OSHIEGO]

Take Your Time And Concentrate On Building A Good Foundation With The Basics. When You Have Them Down, You Will See Your Ground Game Improve.

[cakegirl]

Hey there Shamster,

I'll just back up what the others have said... It will take time, and if you go at it all crazy trying to tap people when you have little technique, you'll just be a horrible sparring partner for your teammates! (BJJ guys, I'm sure you know the people I'm talking about - not all beginners do it, but some of the new guys do, go 200% trying to "tap" their partners, but they don't have enough technique, and they just become DANGEROUS to their parnters and themeselves, with flying limbs all over the place, accidentally striking their partner, losing balance, falling on elbows, etc.)

Number one for beginners it to understand positions. If you're on the bottom, you want your partner in the guard, not mounted. If you're on the top, you want to be mounted/side or top control, not in their guard. If they offer you their back, you take it. With that in mind, you should be able to "spar" quite effectively, always with the intention of getting to and maintaining a good position, or at least preventing your opponent from improving their position. If they're in your guard, don't let them pass. If they've got side control, don't let them mount, etc.

Sparring with that in mind will make you a good partner for your teammates too. They won't have to worry about getting injured, and they can concentrate on the more technical aspects of their game.

From there, as you learn techniques, you can start to try them out. Say you learn armbar from guard. So now, when you've got them in your guard, you keep the "positions" game in mind - i.e. don't let them pass - but now you also keep your eye out and see if they offer you their arm at all. If so, try the armbar. If not, fine - just keep trying to stop them from passing your guard.

Most BJJ schools that I've seen are pretty friendly places. I know when I was a beginner, if I got to a position and maintained it pretty well but had no submissions from there, I'd tell my parnter. Then if the guy knew a submission from there, they'd invariably show me, and thus, once I'd learnt to maintain positions, I started adding submissions to my arsenal.

But ultimately, Shamster, keep at it! BJJ's a great sport, and you're going to have great fun with it!

Cakegirl