most effective street fighting style?

[J-Luck]

Yeah, and if they hadn't been banned at one particular university on one particular day...

True. I saw an interesting political cartoon, about a year or two after 9/11. The title was. "If the silly republicans had their way" (the title was sarcastic).
There were two pictures. One on top of the terrorists in the plane pulling out box cutters. The bottom one had fifteen people immediately drawing firearms and pointing them straight at the sweating terrorists.

I agree, if even a few people in those classrooms had firearms, it woulda been a different story. Hell, if a few of them decided to rush him, maybe it could have been a little different.

[J-Luck]

Weapons are banned from universities. And while having a weapon might make me feel safer - I imagine if I had one it would make the people around me very uncomfortable.

This works on the same principal as gun control. And gun control is to a certain extent, bull shit. You're taking the weapons away from law abiding people, making them less able to defend themselves, while criminals will break the law regardless. In a University, if 10 crazy kids with guns show up one day, but everyone is allowed firearms on their person, how do you think that scenerio plays out?

[Jace]

My concern if everyone carried guns on them would be that it would be easier to have people go over the edge. If you already have the weapon, I would think it would be more of a temptation to use it.

Anyway I look at it I see a lot of people dying and no real good reason why. I think we have also gotten a little off subject though. The discussion was originally about what type of martial art was the best for street fighting.

Gun control and the issues around it doesn't really qualify as a martial art.

[Jace]

Hell, if a few of them decided to rush him, maybe it could have been a little different.

I really don't think it would have been that different. If I'm remembering correctly (which I don't swear to) he shot almost everyone in a matter of seconds. I don't think anyone really had the time to react, even if any of them could have.

[jubaji]

If I'm remembering correctly .

You are not.

[Jace]

I wonder if this guy trained...

http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/8797557.html

needless to say, it does show the effectiveness of weapons training

[Garland]

I wonder if this guy trained...

http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/8797557.html

needless to say, it does show the effectiveness of weapons training

I'm suprised they aren't charging him.

[Tim McFatridge]

That would be really cool if the law every where worked like that. Here locally there was a guy who shot a trespasser (sp) twice with saltrock from his shotgun. Apparently the man had been breaking into the property owners barn and sleeping in there and just really messing the place while the owner was not at home. The property owner posted signs warning any violators would be shot. The guy who was shot was taken to the hospital for his injuries and was released the next day. The man was not allowed to file any charges against the home owner because he was breaking the law. However, now the homeowner is in trouble for firing a weapon inside city limits and for intent to cause bodily harm.

I personally think the guy should be let off the hook. He did not have actual bullets in the gun...and was only protecting his property. Oh well... its the law right.

[Tant01]

Indeed!!

That would be really cool if the law every where worked like that. Here locally there was a guy who shot a trespasser (sp) twice with saltrock from his shotgun. Apparently the man had been breaking into the property owners barn and sleeping in there and just really messing the place while the owner was not at home. The property owner posted signs warning any violators would be shot. The guy who was shot was taken to the hospital for his injuries and was released the next day. The man was not allowed to file any charges against the home owner because he was breaking the law. However, now the homeowner is in trouble for firing a weapon inside city limits and for intent to cause bodily harm.

I personally think the guy should be let off the hook. He did not have actual bullets in the gun...and was only protecting his property. Oh well... its the law right.

Trespassing itself is not (always) a sign of harmful intent. Squatters and homeless are not necessarily viewed as a threat.

Circumstances need to be fairly dire to justify a (any) deadly weapon in the first place. Regardless of posted consequences or his choice of ammo. There's a felony there just tampering with bullets. They don't sell them loaded with salt. That alone shows "PREMEDITATION". It's not a good thing to inflict less lethal wounds. Intent aside it reflects "undue cruelty".

Kill if you must but be ready to fight the courts for your freedom after the fact. Our legal system isn't the best but it's there for a reason. Somebody thought it would be bad to hurt the bad guy... And now we weave a fine thread to stay within the bounds of the law.

[Garland]

Somebody thought it would be bad to hurt the bad guy... And now we weave a fine thread to stay within the bounds of the law.

...true but sad.
This statement pretty much sums the whole situation up.

[Jace]

That would be really cool if the law every where worked like that. Here locally there was a guy who shot a trespasser (sp) twice with saltrock from his shotgun. Apparently the man had been breaking into the property owners barn and sleeping in there and just really messing the place while the owner was not at home. The property owner posted signs warning any violators would be shot. The guy who was shot was taken to the hospital for his injuries and was released the next day. The man was not allowed to file any charges against the home owner because he was breaking the law. However, now the homeowner is in trouble for firing a weapon inside city limits and for intent to cause bodily harm.

I personally think the guy should be let off the hook. He did not have actual bullets in the gun...and was only protecting his property. Oh well... its the law right.

I wonder why he didn't just call the cops and have the guy arrested...

[Red Rum]

Put two men of almost equal physical attributes together. One trained in strip-mall karate, the other in Muay Thai. Who's your money on? The man with the delivery system that's been tested in an alive, full-contact environment.

The answer is mind-numbingly simple. The most effective street fighting arts will:
1. Seek to maximise physical attributes
2. Not use any delivery system that does not work in an alive environment.

Which arts are those? COMBAT SPORTS.

Sorry, but 99.999% of the time, the guys who train in boxing, Muay Thai, Greco, Judo etc etc will kick the ass of your local karate kid.

But what about dirty tricks I hear you cry? "I don't need to learn any ground game, I'll just jab the Judo guy in the eyes and kick him in the groin!"


Ladies and gentleman, there is no debate. Now quit the mental masturbation and go and train.

Go down to a karate school, start a fight and see how you get on.
I'll bet on the karate guy.

MT is good, boxing is good, but generalised comments saying that these arts will outdo a karate guy is nonsense. There are some hard core karate guys out there who will take you apart without trying. And there are bad karate guys who fall over when they try and kick. Yet again, arts are being bashed. When I first looked around for MT schools, I went down to a gym to have a look at one particular school. The instructor was arrogant and annoyed that I had trained in another art! It got heated and he told me to wait until his class had finished. It ended with me handing the guys ass to him.

However, that was not representative of MT. I have trained in the art ever since and have found some great guys who have a good fighting spirit.

Yet it would be easy for me to quote that one experience.

Many people on here have not seen enough of the martial arts world (including myself) to make any kind of judgement on the best streetfighting style. I have won many fights just using wing chun (even used an eye jab once, and it worked fine), but I wouldn't be so arrogant to say that wing chun is the best style out there. Everyone is different. Everyone learns differently. Everyone has different body mass.
Some arts fit the student, some arts don't

These days it is more about the martial artist than the art

[Red Rum]

I'll take that bet every time.

You're right; there are some really good karate fighters, and some very hard-core practitioners among the traditional arts. I've been fortunate enough to train with many of them, and each has my absolute, unqualified respect and admiration. However, the majority of traditional martial artists have not experienced contact at the level or intensity of a boxer, Thai boxer, etc. The ones who have generally compete! I am speaking from personal experience with some of the world's best traditional karate fighters (one of whom was the Pan Am Triple Crown Gold Medalist in Shorin Ryu). When we sparred under liited rules, he was a very fast and effective first strike hitter. He could land shots on me, but his follow-ups were marginal. I was almost always getting the best of the exchanges and doing more damage, because I was used to being hit, and one shot wasn't enough, even with very light MMA gloves. I used an almost exclusively Thai Boxing structure, and the outcome was the same for the nearly six years we had a school together..

I know what you are saying (that a boxer is hit over and over and gets used to it etc), but my old karate instructor used to go over and fight bulls with his bare hands. That for me is incredible.
I just don't think its fair to say that 99.9% of the time Karate will lose against MT etc. That is a ver generalised statement
I know cr*p MT schools and good MT schools.
I also know cr*p karate schools and good karate schools.
I personally believe that the best MT guys in the world would beat the best karate guys in the world as MT explores the whole range of fighting (ie long range, close range, clinch etc)
But Karate is such a popular art nowadays (probably one of the largest martial arts in the world) that it would be impossible to speak for every school

As for local proof, find and ask Maxx what his take is. He is probably the most combat functional traditional martial artist I ever met, and before he branched out into JKD and Muay Thai, he was an accomplished and downright scary Kyokushin and Tae Kwon Do fighter. He's what I would have considered a badass with nothing more than his Tae Kwon Do, and yet it is telling that he did in fact branch into Muay Thai and JKD.

A lot of people 'complete' their arts and go onto other arts. I have completed the wing chun system as far as knowing all the forms, drills, feeding techniques etc and only had chi sao left to perfect. Therefore I was attracted to other martial arts. It is the same with MT guys who have completed their arts or become champions etc. They often devaite to other martial arts. It doesn't mean that MT is cr*p, it just means that they want to get a feel of another martial art

[seabeebillm]

I'm a newbie here, but I always get a laugh from the "my style's better than your style" arguments. In a "street fight" anything is better than nothing! Most of the time a "street fight" is instigated by some drunk jackass who's never had any training in anything, so if you have studied any type of combative arts you're light years ahead of your average bear. If you are out looking for a fight to prove how bad you or your style is your going to end up dead, period! In my younger days I boxed, took Tae Kwon Do for about a year and kickboxed for about a year, I'm also a big guy who lifted weights obsessively and got to where I could bench over 400lbs and squat over 500. I have been in 3 "street fights" in my life, the first one was against a gold glove boxer who was half my size (bad move on my part) he proceeded to beat me like a rented mule (we later became friends and sparring partners). The 2nd was in a bar in Sausalito where I broke a pool que across a guy's back then ran the hell out of there before the cops showed up, the 3rd was in Tijuana and I just picked the guy up and smashed him into a metal fence which ended the fight. I guess from my experience the most effective MA was good old western boxing, since in the other 2 I didn't really use any MA to defeat my opponents. Nowadays I have a concealed carry permit, I shoot IDPA and I carry a compact 9mm pistol which I take to the range and put several hundred rounds through a couple of times a week (I promise you I can draw my weapon, take the safety off, and put 2 rounds in your chest and 1 in your forehead before you can say "Chop Suey"). To make a long story short, in my opinion learn and PRACTICE some MA (any style, like I said anything is better than nothing) but don't stop there! BUY A PISTOL, learn how to use it safely, practice with it and if you live in a state that allows it, get a carry permit and carry your weapon! Just my 2 cents.

[Tant01]

Black belts and black eyes..

Go down to a karate school, start a fight and see how you get on.
I'll bet on the karate guy.
.....
Many people on here have not seen enough of the martial arts world (including myself) to make any kind of judgement on the best streetfighting style......

These days it is more about the martial artist than the art

You know, I typed up a response to this yesterday and decided not to post it. (Out of respect for the EXCEPTIONS) It went something like "Been there, done that... You lose".

But I would also have to admit that I've had my ass handed to me once or twice too. It really depends on the player as much as the school.

In my limited experience with knocking on doors, most "masters" won't fight you. They will just call the cops.

There are a few that will entertain a more civilized MATCH. You want to put the gloves on and go a few? That's not a problem for SOME Dojo's. The rules it seems will tend to favor the other guy's art. Some won't grapple or throw some want to take away tools or targets. It's not so hard to beat some Karate fighters... You might be surprised if you learn to press them. Go play that yourself if you want my advise.

I was just a humble unranked Judo guy... They still wouldn't play my game? What can I say? They liked it when they hit me but not when I HIT back...
So phui... That's my rant.

I know one or two really good guys that might take offense if I bashed Karate but in my own humble opinion most karateka are not really fighters.

In fact I'm not a fighter either... so what do I know?