most effective street fighting style?

[Tant01]

The western name for such techniques is called a destruction. These are popular with silat and FMA, which is why I respect these arts. Destructions are legit, against kicks too.

......

To some westerners that see the technique performed as a solo drill it looks like "a girl brushing her hair"
There are more than 150 officially recognized styles of Silat. In addition there are hundreds or thousands of indigenous tribal and geographic variations.

There is one underlying principle that most (realistic) combat oriented blade arts share. That's directness and simplicity. Pure brutality and self preservation. Nothing so fancy as a warning cut or multi step "defang" techniques... The spanish knife fighters like to say "To save your life you must burry your knife" Simple enough, eh?
No fine motor skills required. It's about killing and that's it...

The "advanced" artists learn structural cutting and other deanimation techniques...

[Tom Yum]

There is one underlying principle that most (realistic) combat oriented blade arts share. That's directness and simplicity....No fine motor skills required.

The "advanced" artists learn structural cutting and other deanimation techniques...

Well put. I agree that simplicity is best.

[wardancer]

You do not ASSUME anything and yet here you are again telling everyone what you think you know about MY art? Hilarious...


Wake up and smell the rotting carcass of your Jiu-Jutsu, PLAYER...


You might want to pull your head out of "Grand Master" Helio's butt before you start thinking like him.(MORE) You see, he thinks his Jiu-Jutsu is some kind of bullet proof shield.


To quote:

"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."


Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April issue of GRAPPLING magazine)



Care to comment on this Mr. dancer?



"Hey, you're bleeding!!"

Too easy, I am a BJJ player and I am not a Gracie affiliate.
BJJ exist for about 90 years, forget about Helio.

My team fight in MMA to represent their club.
The fact that my master is brazilian and that we use BJJ as the platform to do vale tudo is NOT relevant to the topic.

For all I care, I could be Japanese from a pro-wrestling club with a Sambo russian instructor that enter their best fighters into the shooto local tournament in hope to join the so famous Pride circuit.

This is about belonging to a MMA team with your top students are fighting in MMA events!
it is better that your suggestion about kids holding knifes for self-defense anytime!

[wardancer]

I understand the effectiveness of MMA brazilian jiu-jitsu is a truely brilliant system, Muay Thai extremely effective system..

Oh and the reason you never see a silat guy in NHB is because your not allowed to destroy the guys knuckles, nerves, kick to the groin, gouge his eyes or anything of that nature. In a street fight you can do whatever want if it allows you to survive.

BUT HEY I COULD BE WRONG YA KNOW?

Yes you are wrong.
NHB with no rules still exists and there is still no silat guy.
I mean you must be new to MMA debate but vale tudo in Brazil is already a known history like the challenge between the BJJ and Luta livre.
In Brazil, vale tudo means anything goes and that the way the Gracie brought it to the US under the first UFC.

[wardancer]

No system has it all. But Silat is a more complete system that these others. It has great over all grappling and striking on the ground, they have kicking techniques, boxing techniques.Also has very good in fighting skills. As well as weapon training . And by looking at the poll silat is the only system that has a better chance in the street.

If silat is so great in the grappling, where are your representative at the ADCC?
You just live in your 'dream world'?

[wardancer]

The western name for such techniques is called a destruction.

On average though, TMA lacks modern training methods and a simple fighting base offered by boxing or muay thai.

TMA is good but became stagnant due to boring and scared leaders!
Kimura, Count Maeda and Mas Oyama were good examples that TMA were to be fought in open challenge format.
The Brazilians just kept on doing the same stuff!
Now, do not be surprise if I think you are stupid!
What make your self-claimed unproven TMA are more lethal that MMA styles in the streets?
Because you use the vital/privates parts strikes?
LOL,
I get my share of small joints manipulations (someone trying to break yopur fingers) when I am choking someone for a roll. Do you think the ref will see that when I do an RNC from a mount?
I get my private parts crushed everytime someone pass my guard from the inside and when I pull an arm from a closed guard.
I do not enjoy someone elbow on my eye socket when they pin me on a side control.
I do not enjoy someone crushing my kidneys with their tight closed guard or on a reversal sweeps.
I do not enjoy someone putting his weight on my floating ribs by applying a knee.
i do not enjoy getting a RNC on my noise because I will not give my throat!
I do not enjoy elbows on my inner thights because someone does not know how to pass a guard.
All the above are painfull so called common/pressure points that I got used too during BJJ pratice and the list goes on!
No big deal, you do not brag about it!
it must my sport nothing hard like your TMA.
I mean you will just poke the dude eye and you are the KING OF THE STREET!

[Tant01]

So wrong...

NHB with no rules still exists ....

I mean you must be new to MMA ....

In Brazil, vale tudo means anything goes

and that('s) the way the Gracie brought it to the US under the first UFC.

NHB has rules and you can be DQ from playing if you intentionally break those rules. (repeatedly)


Vale tudo also has rules and it does not mean "ANYTHING" goes...


Rules limit the number of fighters in the ARENA at the same time. Rules limit the fighting to an empty hand game. Rules limit the targets you can attack and when you can attack them. Rules limit the amount of time you can continue to attempt your submission techniques. Rules do not allow your OPPONENT to keep fighting after you make him tap out...(or to fight again after he wakes up. ) Both Vale tudo and NHB use referees to stop a fight in the event that one COMPETITOR can no longer defend himself.


None of this is relevant on the streets.

[bodhisattva]

Why do these people think you have to study silat to learn destructions?

These exist in MMA as well.

Our boxing defenses here often guide people's fists into our elbows.

It doesn't DESTROY their fist, though. That is a total fallacy.

It does hurt quite a bit, though.

This is not something Silat invented, nor is it something Silat solely posesses.

The beauty of MMA is that you are not limited in your scope.

You can add anything to your arsenal that actually works.
--
There ARE rules in NHB contests. But that doesn't make them "bad training for the street". Such thinking is utterly faulty.

So what if I can't gouge my opponent's eyes out? I can still TRAIN the BJJ, and also TRAIN the finding of the gouges, just like any silat practitioner.

The difference is I wll be training them with a STRONG base in BJJ, and so when he goes for an eye gouge, I will PUNISH THE SHIT OUT OF HIM.. and when I go for an eye gouge, I will end up with his pretty orbits upon my digits.

[bodhisattva]

You do not ASSUME anything and yet here you are again telling everyone what you think you know about MY art? Hilarious...


Wake up and smell the rotting carcass of your Jiu-Jutsu, PLAYER...


You might want to pull your head out of "Grand Master" Helio's butt before you start thinking like him.(MORE) You see, he thinks his Jiu-Jutsu is some kind of bullet proof shield.


To quote:

"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."


Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April issue of GRAPPLING magazine)



Care to comment on this Mr. dancer?

Since you brought up the gun thing, it's only fair that you have the opportunity to go first... I'm sure you know ALL about my gun skills too, right?

Hojutsu...Might be a bit out of YOUR league.

This is great fun, Thanks for the entertainment and the opportunity to confirm the rediculous dogma behind the Neo Judo Machine. (GJJ/BJJ)

It's a riot!



"Hey, you're bleeding!!"

Hey big mouth, what area of the states do you live in? Northwest, I hope?

[Tom Yum]

TMA is good but became stagnant due to boring and scared leaders!
Kimura, Count Maeda and Mas Oyama were good examples that TMA were to be fought in open challenge format.
The Brazilians just kept on doing the same stuff!
Now, do not be surprise if I think you are stupid!
What make your self-claimed unproven TMA are more lethal that MMA styles in the streets?
Because you use the vital/privates parts strikes?
LOL,
I get my share of small joints manipulations (someone trying to break yopur fingers) when I am choking someone for a roll. Do you think the ref will see that when I do an RNC from a mount?
I get my private parts crushed everytime someone pass my guard from the inside and when I pull an arm from a closed guard.
I do not enjoy someone elbow on my eye socket when they pin me on a side control.
I do not enjoy someone crushing my kidneys with their tight closed guard or on a reversal sweeps.
I do not enjoy someone putting his weight on my floating ribs by applying a knee.
i do not enjoy getting a RNC on my noise because I will not give my throat!
I do not enjoy elbows on my inner thights because someone does not know how to pass a guard.
All the above are painfull so called common/pressure points that I got used too during BJJ pratice and the list goes on!
No big deal, you do not brag about it!
it must my sport nothing hard like your TMA.
I mean you will just poke the dude eye and you are the KING OF THE STREET!

I'm not a huge TMA fan, just saying that there are techniques from TMA style that are worth a look at. My base is in boxing, wrestling and muay thai.

[Tant01]

Hey big mouth, what area of the states do you live in? Northwest, I hope?

You hope? Is that like ALMOST calling me out of my gutter? You're in luck! If you look under my forum name you'll see a general geographic refrence.

I'd be the unshaven, unkept, toothless old guy living in the van down by the river...

The Mad River that is. And it's a purple van with some rust on the roof.

At your service!
...


Maybe you should hope for something else? Like cancer...

[EGstudent]

Well i guess you're the only one who is allowed to be right on this thread. I'm just expressing my opinion. My opinion is mine , yours is yours. I respect your status, and your opinion. I never said anyhting about people carrying knives i was just saying that some people do just to clear that up. Anyway i'm tired of this thread.

[bodhisattva]

You hope? Is that like ALMOST calling me out of my gutter? You're in luck! If you look under my forum name you'll see a general geographic refrence.

I'd be the unshaven, unkept, toothless old guy living in the van down by the river...

The Mad River that is. And it's a purple van with some rust on the roof.

At your service! BswiftNmercifull@aol.com


...


Maybe you should hope for something else? Like cancer...

Good. Northern California.

You should stop by Straight Blast Gym in Portland sometime.

And such a loudmouth, as you are here.

But as a friend.

And, as friends, we'll show you some real Jits.

And then you can quit speaking so loudly and foolishly.

You can even wear your ninja costume.

And we will entertain you with the "ridiculous dogma" of brazilian jiu-jitsu SBG style. And you will find it to not be dogmatic at all, as we are under a constant state of evolution here.

You might be shocked to find that we have an excellent blade/stick program. You might be shocked to find that a jits man with a knife is a terrible thing to fight indeed.

Or, you might beat all of our asses, and drink our blood. Could happen. No argument here.

But I think you will leave the gym enlightened. And quieter. And less brash. I'm certain.

And IF I'm wrong, and you really do have game, *WE* will evolve to fit *YOUR* style.

You follow that? Thats how it works here. We are ANTI-DOGMA : If your shit is so good that it blows our minds, as you seem to think, we will incorporate it.

[bodhisattva]

[QUOTE=Tant01]

The best styles for learning mechanics and application of the human form to it's most economical and peak fighting form are; .....
....

...QUOTE]


I think Kano understood this as well as anyone does today. It's almost sad to me that Judowaza is so often overlooked or discounted...

True, it is.
But it is mostly the fault of the practitioners.

If every judo school/club/gym trained hard, both stand up and ground, clinch/throws/takedowns/position/submission, then they wouldn't be discounted so often.

I went to a great Judo club in St. Louis. They were hardasses. They fought hard, all of the time, stand-up and ground. The only flaw - no clinch game.

Even with that flaw, they were superior athletes. As hard and as good as any bjj I've seen, maybe.

Here at SBG, we not only respect the Judoka, we invite them in for our big spring/fall camp seminars. We flew in a guy from Ireland, Andy, and he gave us loads of Judo techniques.

Not all BJJ/MMA clubs dis on Judo. We recognize it here at SBG. We recognize any art/school that trains with aliveness or reality based techniques.

[Tant01]

Good. Northern California.

You should stop by Straight Blast Gym in Portland sometime.

... as a friend.

And, as friends, we'll show you some real (JUTSU)
.

That's very hospitable of you. Thanks for the invitation. As friends it would be my pleasure to see your jiutsu in action. I really like it but don't tell everyone, eh? Just between you and me, the BJJ is good stuff and we both know it. Mix that with the SB style of in your face knuckle busting express delivery system and I'd be a fool to miss out on that!