Great response, Mike.
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
most effective street fighting style?
Collapse
X
-
Registered User
- Dec 2005
- 75
-
"Feel no Pain; Fear no Man"-Anti
"Calm, Aware, and under Control. Manipulate your body as a whole and believe you control the very water in your hands. Let everything flow around you as though it flowed within you. This is your stance in a fight and your stance in life. Live it, don't force it." -Anti
--Site-
wow, long post, and nicely put Mike B. But as far as the first post, perhaps you are simply fighting multiple opponents for recreation? I know you were not reffering to the original topic and first post of this thread (from my understanding), but i simply wanna clarify that multiple opponents isnt always a bad thing(such as a bully-type fight, a mugging, etc), and that against multiple opponents, this thread is asking, in you all's opinion, what the best strategy or fighting style could be used in a multiple opponent situation, beings a street fight could verywell become a ganged-up-on-you fight...
On that note, previously I have poted my thoughts on striking when it counts, and throwing for intimidation if situation calls for a chance (mostly in anger-type fights, or senseless brutality situations). Also, i like the way you put this, but the best thing to do in my opinion, if yuo can keep it up, is "make your opponents miss, and then make them pay for missing". Like I said, this is if you can keep it up, so for those hits you do take, make sure you can take em, or atleast move enough to 'soften the blow'.
As far as styles, I think it would be good to have general flexibilty of Taekwondo, but also the extra power and manuvers of Muay Thai. Lastly, any kind of boxing could help you take the blow. Some forms of Kung Fu could work, beings they like manuvering their oponent like some Aikido(or maybe Hapkido). Sorry if any of my opinion is false, I get things mixed up terminology-wize.
Dam, mines almost the size of yur post. Maybe next time ill top it.
~Anti
Comment
-
Registered User
- Dec 2005
- 75
-
"Feel no Pain; Fear no Man"-Anti
"Calm, Aware, and under Control. Manipulate your body as a whole and believe you control the very water in your hands. Let everything flow around you as though it flowed within you. This is your stance in a fight and your stance in life. Live it, don't force it." -Anti
--Site-
wow, long post, and nicely put Mike B. But as far as the first post, perhaps you are simply fighting multiple opponents for recreation? I know you were not reffering to the original topic and first post of this thread (from my understanding), but i simply wanna clarify that multiple opponents isnt always a bad thing(such as a bully-type fight, a mugging, etc), and that against multiple opponents, this thread is asking, in you all's opinion, what the best strategy or fighting style could be used in a multiple opponent situation, beings a street fight could verywell become a ganged-up-on-you fight...
On that note, previously I have poted my thoughts on striking when it counts, and throwing for intimidation if situation calls for a chance (mostly in anger-type fights, or senseless brutality situations). Also, i like the way you put this, but the best thing to do in my opinion, if yuo can keep it up, is "make your opponents miss, and then make them pay for missing". Like I said, this is if you can keep it up, so for those hits you do take, make sure you can take em, or atleast move enough to 'soften the blow'.
As far as styles, I think it would be good to have general flexibilty of Taekwondo, but also the extra power and manuvers of Muay Thai. Lastly, any kind of boxing could help you take the blow. Some forms of Kung Fu could work, beings they like manuvering their oponent like some Aikido(or maybe Hapkido). Sorry if any of my opinion is false, I get things mixed up terminology-wize.
Dam, mines almost the size of yur post. Maybe next time ill top it. just kidding
~Anti
Comment
-
Registered User
- Dec 2005
- 75
-
"Feel no Pain; Fear no Man"-Anti
"Calm, Aware, and under Control. Manipulate your body as a whole and believe you control the very water in your hands. Let everything flow around you as though it flowed within you. This is your stance in a fight and your stance in life. Live it, don't force it." -Anti
--Site-
it posted my last post twice, so im changing this one to tell you what the hell happened... In short, I dont know how to delete it..only edit. T-T
~Me
Comment
-
Registered User
- Dec 2005
- 75
-
"Feel no Pain; Fear no Man"-Anti
"Calm, Aware, and under Control. Manipulate your body as a whole and believe you control the very water in your hands. Let everything flow around you as though it flowed within you. This is your stance in a fight and your stance in life. Live it, don't force it." -Anti
--Site-
wow, three times...this is weird. im going to restart my internet. Sry for the annoyance that has become of me...
Comment
-
Mike,
You can't claim to know my history when it comes to either training or fighting. But...
...I see your point. There's no doubt that having training in striking gives one an advantage in a striking match. This has been proven time and again.
But, on the other hand, I've never seen a fight outside of a boxing ring that resembled a boxing match. Usually, it's more along the lines of the bigger and more agressive person just charging forward and throwing hard punches, trying to knock his opponent down or out. Clinching in a brawl does not, in my opinion, negate strikes for very long or give either opponent a chance to rest as it does in a boxing match. Rather, it leads to the fight going to the ground, with a good chance of the bigger/heavier guy ending up on top.
Your 140 pound boxer deserves kudos for beating up a 240 pound brawler. But I simply can't see that happening usually, even in a boxing match. Much less in a brawl.
I'm certainly not trying to buy any hype about grappling. But I will admit, the entire reason I became interested in BJJ is because of Royce Gracie in the original UFCs. It's interesting to watch these first UFCs because most of the fighters in them (unlike today's highly skilled fighters) ended up throwing away their training in karate or kickboxing and just slugging it out like Neanderthals or shoving their opponent into a corner and pounding on him. Gracie, on the other hand, had very little trouble applying his Jiu Jitsu to these guys.
I agree with cam427 that everyone has a natural ability to fight. Basic wrestling comes naturally to us. Using our fists as bashing tools is pretty basic as well. I knew how to throw a decent punch (though not boxing style combos) when I was in the 5th grade.
However, techniques like the armbar and the guillotine do NOT come naturally to us. I certainly did not know how to apply an armbar, or escape the mount, or apply a guillotine choke, or escape a headlock before I began BJJ.
Ask 10 random people to demonstrate throwing a punch.
Ask those same 10 people to demonstrate applying an armbar or a guillotine.
My point is, it's less likely for a brawler to know submission grappling than it is for him to know how to use his fists as bashing tools. If I am 140 pounds, it's not very realistic for me to try to win through punches when someone who is 240 pounds and has fists the size of my head decides to pick a fight with me. He's not going to respect my footwork, or timing, or angles. He's going to push me into a corner, shove me to the ground, and start pounding on me.
No fighting art (that I know of) is capable of completely negating the advantages offered by superior size and strength. But I think BJJ does a better job of it than most. I know, for example, that the first time I did free training in BJJ, I was very confident in myself because I could bench over 300 pounds and had a 60 pound advantage over my opponent. But he had absolutely no trouble applying armbars and choke holds to me, and basically made me feel completely helpless.
Last point in this long post. Mike is of course right when he says that weapons are the great equalizer in any fight. But I (despite being a Texan) do not want to carry around guns or knives. I think just looking like you're a guy who is capable of fighting back (i.e., looking like you can bench press the Great Wall of China) would be enough to convince most would-be muggers to look for easier prey. Unless, of course, he has a gun. In which case, there's very little you can do unless you have one also.
Let me know what you think.
Comment
-
Registered User
- Dec 2005
- 75
-
"Feel no Pain; Fear no Man"-Anti
"Calm, Aware, and under Control. Manipulate your body as a whole and believe you control the very water in your hands. Let everything flow around you as though it flowed within you. This is your stance in a fight and your stance in life. Live it, don't force it." -Anti
--Site-
Very good points on the fact that size has a natural sort of 'advantage' on the lesser, but several martial arts attempt to get around the size issue, and do quite a good job at it. If a larger opponent is rushing you to a corner, try not to let him. trip him, jab him, do anything that at the time seems be able to effect him. dont concentrate on beating him at that moment. iinstead use whatever training yo may or may not have to stop the assualt. after that, perhaps when hes on the ground, you can regain you goals of victory or, in some cases escape or even simply life, and either apply your x ammount of training or perhaps natural ability/instict to meet whatever that goal may be.
Comment
-
Originally posted by SabinYour 140 pound boxer deserves kudos for beating up a 240 pound brawler. But I simply can't see that happening usually, even in a boxing match. Much less in a brawl. .
Check out some footage of Ali, Tyson, Roy Jones Jr, and De Lahoya. Imagine these guys hitting with no gloves and with their bare fists or palms.
I'm a fan of grappling, too.
Comment
-
Great points by all and the two last posts by Mike and Sabin I found really informative. I think the point is that there is as much of an art to striking as there is to grappling. Both can be effective based on the scenario. (person you're going against, circumstances, level of training etc.) To be effective with either against a bigger, stronger, faster opponent, it takes time, dedication, practice, and skill. To say that one or the other is superior in EVERY scenario is not only wrong, its dangerous, and could potentially get you hurt if you ever have to use your art to defend yourself. (God willing you won't have to)
Comment
-
As far as assumptions go, from a self defense stand point anyway, I don't underestimate anyone. Always assume your opponent is at least as skilled as you. Sabin you did make a good point that if you brawl with someone, no matter how good of a fighter you are, you're probably going to get hit eventually. Very true. But if your a trained fighter (say kickboxing/muay thai etc), you know how to minimize that damage and set the other guy up for a terrible counter attack. But again, from a self defense stand point, that's why I would personally try NOT to sit there and box or kickbox with someone. (try being the operative word) Intercept/avoid/block/destroy/survive the first blow, inflict as much damage and pain as possible, and terminate the fight. (again, thats the plan, heck who knows what would happen in a real scenario) My 2 cents anyway.
Comment
-
Dumdedumdedum... D'oh!
Originally posted by Anti... If a larger opponent is rushing you to a corner, try not to let him. trip him, jab him, do anything that at the time seems be able to effect him. dont concentrate on beating him at that moment. iinstead use whatever training yo may or may not have to stop the assualt. after that, perhaps when hes on the ground, you can regain you goals of victory or, in some cases escape or even simply life, and either apply your x ammount of training or perhaps natural ability/instict to meet whatever that goal may be.
You've never been a victim of a violent attack, have you?
How exactly would you use training you don't have?
I'll tell you a secret, ready? One of the most dangerous men I ever met was all of 100 pounds and maybe 5 feet tall. He wasn't a grappler or a striker although he was very fast with his feet and hands and more than capable on the deck... He was a KNIFER!
The best defense on the streets is a weapon... Just ask any LEO... they carry a baton for the resistant and a handgun for the armed and violent.
Real MARTIAL education starts with the assumption that your attacker is BIGGER, STRONGER, armed, has INTENT to do serious bodily harm and friends to help him out if he has any problems...
Now what? Still want to try your instincts and natural ability?
You might be better off with a can of peper spray.
Comment
-
Registered User
- Dec 2005
- 75
-
"Feel no Pain; Fear no Man"-Anti
"Calm, Aware, and under Control. Manipulate your body as a whole and believe you control the very water in your hands. Let everything flow around you as though it flowed within you. This is your stance in a fight and your stance in life. Live it, don't force it." -Anti
--Site-
Originally posted by Tant01You've never been a victim of a violent attack, have you?
How exactly would you use training you don't have?
I'll tell you a secret, ready? One of the most dangerous men I ever met was all of 100 pounds and maybe 5 feet tall. He wasn't a grappler or a striker although he was very fast with his feet and hands and more than capable on the deck... He was a KNIFER!
The best defense on the streets is a weapon... Just ask any LEO... they carry a baton for the resistant and a handgun for the armed and violent.
Real MARTIAL education starts with the assumption that your attacker is BIGGER, STRONGER, armed, has INTENT to do serious bodily harm and friends to help him out if he has any problems...
Now what? Still want to try your instincts and natural ability?
You might be better off with a can of peper spray.
~Anti
Comment
-
No, I still don't get it...
Anti~"My previous and quoted post was an answer to a mentioned scenario of a violent person or persons assualting you into a corner and then knocking you into helplessness and pain. My reply was basically to stop their assualt and get out, or stop it to get an upperhand in the fight."
Right and exactly how would one go about doing that? Empty handed?
Grapple them? Roll into a fetal position and wait for them to go away?
Just a thought but I'll draw the karambit out of my ass pocket and start cutting... it's the easiest way to change their minds about attacking you. And when I say "easy" I mean a little girl could do it with MINIMAL training. People are soft targets and top heavy. Keeping a cool head under the stress of an attack like that is difficult for sure but losing it and trying to berserk your way out will waste valuable energy and time...
As I said a can of spray might work better than trying make a door with your "techniques"...
Not trying to argue or belittle your input, on the contrary I was ASKING. How would you DO it?
Thanks...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tom YumHey Sabin, do you train in boxing. Those 140lb ers can get the hell away from you quick and get in your face as fast as you can blink your eye! They will make you miss and jam a hard cross straight up the middle. Its the punches that you don't see that will knock you out. Someone with slick footwork can run circles around an aggressive charger and better yet, make him run into punches.
Check out some footage of Ali, Tyson, Roy Jones Jr, and De Lahoya. Imagine these guys hitting with no gloves and with their bare fists or palms.
I'm a fan of grappling, too.
The same event, a friend who was a good grabbler was knock out from a 1-2 combo.
Comment
-
Hmmmph
I watched a 140 pound boxer tear the unholy bejeezus out of a 245 pound streetfighter a week ago in the gym.I've seen a 150-lber combo punch the daylights out of a 250-lber in a free-for all ring brawl.
But, one of my points still stands: Nearly everyone knows how to throw a punch. Very few people know how to apply or defend against submission grappling.
Comment
Comment