most effective street fighting style?

[blitz]

This is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that reflects the OVERCONFIDENCE of some "martial" artists.


The guy with the knife has the "edge" regardless of his training.

By no means am I overconfident. In fact, I'm probably not as confident as I should be. I always think "What if I can't use what I learned effectively" "What if he does something I haven't trained against" and other questions. I'm just saying people are degrading martial arts(traditional and modern) for means of self defense. Thats what they are made for, I'm pretty sure they will help you in lots of situations.. Nothing is perfect, even a martial art.

[Tom Yum]

This is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that reflects the OVERCONFIDENCE of some "martial" artists.
The guy with the knife has the "edge" regardless of his training.

What concerns me are some of the knife-defenses I've seen. I can't see a spinning wheel kick being good defense against someone lunging at you and getting stabby.

[Tant01]

Go fight...

By no means am I overconfident. In fact, I'm probably not as confident as I should be. I always think "What if I can't use what I learned effectively" "What if he does something I haven't trained against" and other questions. I'm just saying people are degrading martial arts(traditional and modern) for means of self defense. Thats what they are made for, I'm pretty sure they will help you in lots of situations.. Nothing is perfect, even a martial art.

The theories and techniques need to be acid tested by YOU to determine if they are effective or not.

Better to be overly cautious about your ability than too confident...

you just need to fight more.

[Tom Yum]

Better to be overly cautious about your ability than too confident...you just need to fight more.

No truer words to be said.

[Kenpodog]

The guy with the knife has the "edge" regardless of his training.

Hey, that was cleaver without the "A".

[B.Y.O.B.]

I think we should account the fighters stances as well and not only their techniques. Like a muay thai fighters legs are straight and look stiff, so I think it will make their movements very hard for them. Like in this picture of a fighter.

[Sabin]

The concern is, what happens when the "fight" you're in is pretty minor, and your only real option is to snap a guy's joint? I'm just not sure how a jury would see that is all. If you're fighting for your life, heck - choke him out and then snap all his joints! I just think maybe a bloody nose is a more humane way of dealing with some conflicts than breaking bones.

If we're talking about humaneness, and the fight you're in is minor, and you are trying to avoid actually hurting the guy you're fighting against, it seems to me that grappling is the way to go.

You can control your opponent (like police officers do), keep him from hitting you, even apply a light choke or joint lock (preferrably a choke) until he calms down (in a "minor" fight, being choked for a few seconds by someone's forearm can take the fight out of a guy pretty quickly).

While it's more humane to win a minor fight by punching someone in the face than it is to win by snapping a bone, it's also more humane to win a minor fight by simply controlling your opponent until he is forced to give up and calm down than it is to win by bludgeoning the living daylights out of him with your fists.

I know that if I were to lose a fight, I'd rather lose it by being taken down and forced to give up via a forearm choke than to lose it by having my face battered and jaw broken by some guy's fists.

Let me know what you think.

[Tant01]

Warning...

If we're talking about humaneness, and the fight you're in is minor, and you are trying to avoid actually hurting the guy you're fighting against, it seems to me that grappling is the way to go.

You can control your opponent (like police officers do), keep him from hitting you, even apply a light choke or joint lock (preferrably a choke) until he calms down (in a "minor" fight, being choked for a few seconds by someone's forearm can take the fight out of a guy pretty quickly).

While it's more humane to win a minor fight by punching someone in the face than it is to win by snapping a bone, it's also more humane to win a minor fight by simply controlling your opponent until he is forced to give up and calm down than it is to win by bludgeoning the living daylights out of him with your fists.

I know that if I were to lose a fight, I'd rather lose it by being taken down and forced to give up via a forearm choke than to lose it by having my face battered and jaw broken by some guy's fists.

Let me know what you think.

I think you're right... Control tactics are good. You avoid civil liability by inflicting LESS trauma.

Mike used poor wording by saying if it's a fight for your life choke him out and then break all his joints... If you choke out a violent felon he is no longer a legitimate "threat" so continuing to inflict trauma after that would be assault or attempted murder... (depending on your intent)

[aseepish]

What concerns me are some of the knife-defenses I've seen. I can't see a spinning wheel kick being good defense against someone lunging at you and getting stabby.

The hands-down absolute worst seminar I've ever been to was a knife-defense one, taught by a guy who had supposedly trained with UDT guys in the Bahamas. We played the marker game, and then he proceeded to show us some crescent kicks and *SERIOUSLY* a spinning back kick counter.

[BoarSpear]

Don't kick at knives...

Thats a lesson written in blood....and gospel truth.

[Tom Yum]

Aseepish, did any of the PFS guys ever tell you about the Seal who managed to end his career showing a hapkido crescent kick knife defense? He threw a kick at the knife wielder's hand, and the knife wielder flinched about four inches downward. That put the knife right about in the same flight path as the kicker's achilles tendon. The boot, leg, and tendon were cut, and the Seal became a "former Seal."

Don't kick at knives...

Amen!

I've seen some completely unrealistic knife defenses. I'm not an expert at empty-hand knife defenses, but I'd be more likely to trust any work by silat, kali, combatives or PFS any day over hapkido.

[BoarSpear]

Amen!

I've seen some completely unrealistic knife defenses. I'm not an expert at empty-hand knife defenses, but I'd be more likely to trust any work by silat, kali, combatives or PFS any day over hapkido.

Or ANY other non blade related art

[EmptyneSs]

ive seen some clips of dan inosanto using a training blade to perform some pretty nasty looking destructions to the kicks of opponents.

[medic06]

Empty hand v. knife is an iffy proposition even if you do train in a blade orientated martial art. . . .

I've trained in Hapkido for 12 years, both me and my teacher thought trying to kick the knife from someone's hand was retarded.

On another, Dan Inosanto is amazing! I remember at a seminar watching him demonstrate about 20 different knife disarms while maintaining perfect distance, circling, correcting his student who was feeding him attacks, and giving a brief history and description of what he was doing. The man looks like he is dancing. . .

[Paco]

Did anybody see the last issue of IKF? There is a Paul Vunak article in which he is advocating GOING DOWN TO THE GROUND (BJJ STYLE) WHEN SOMEBODY HAS A KNIFE! I usually agree with Vunak on many things but having done rolling with a partner armed a training blade (start out back to back, one partner has a knife, the object is to control the opponent, partner has to deploy blade), all I can say that's nuts. You cannot simply transpose traditional "normal" grappling into a situation where one guy has a knife and has drawn it.