most effective street fighting style?

[SamuraiGuy]

Boarspear I agree with you completely about wanting to stay off the ground.

However, I feel the strength of grappling, especially BJJ is learning to fight off your back. Anyone can do damage from the top in a fight, even with no training, its fairly easy to punch down at someone.

Because being on your back (mount, gaurd, or sidemount) is the worst position for you in a streetfight, the strength of grappling particularly BJJ is being able to defend yourself while on your back, and reverse the positions or get back up to your feet.

I know you dont want to be on the ground in any type of real life situation, so wouldnt training that helps you get off the ground, or helps you get to the most advantageous position on the ground be extremely important.

I'm not saying other things arent as important or more important for street self defense, people just seem to overlook this fact.

[SamuraiGuy]

This fight illustrates my point to a T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THd4SooALVg&search=weakling%20asian

(It's a fairly one sided ass kicking, and I wouldn't say graphic but it displays the stupidity of some people so It's kinda distrubing in that sense)

Watch as the kid being beat up is repeatedly being mounted. He gets dominated from this position, so much so that the other guy takes time to take a "smiling" picture on top of him.

Your telling me knowledge of a BJJ Upa escape (bridge and roll for anyone who isnt sure what that means), or a hip escape to recompose halfgaurd or gaurd wouldnt have been invaluable to the loser of this fight?

Edit; Id like to add they are both fucking horrible fighters, its disgusting to think people can actually fight this poorly, but it does prove my point.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Here is the Ultimate MA book!!
http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASI...789423-8351266

[Garland]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Dumog and Kino Mutai tactics pretty much **** a grappler in a real no-rules fight? (about as well as would any edged weapon.)

As for multiple opponents...I retain that running is probably a smart thing. Unless you can't for some reason, in which case, going to the ground is going to leave some sneaker prints upside your face...and the best bet would be a weapon of ANY sort, hopefully a gun. No gun?...knife...no knife?...anything sharp and/or pointy...nothing sharp and pointy?...probably as much stand-up shit as you can to create an opening to run. (I didn't include impact weapons, since...hey, somebody could easily wrangle a blunt tool away from you pretty quick in a group (even if you knew what you were doing), just by taking hits on their forearms...check out a new kid game called "sluggin'".)

[academian]

[Garland]

This fight illustrates my point to a T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THd4SooALVg&search=weakling%20asian

(It's a fairly one sided ass kicking, and I wouldn't say graphic but it displays the stupidity of some people so It's kinda distrubing in that sense)

Watch as the kid being beat up is repeatedly being mounted. He gets dominated from this position, so much so that the other guy takes time to take a "smiling" picture on top of him.

Your telling me knowledge of a BJJ Upa escape (bridge and roll for anyone who isnt sure what that means), or a hip escape to recompose halfgaurd or gaurd wouldnt have been invaluable to the loser of this fight?

Edit; Id like to add they are both fucking horrible fighters, its disgusting to think people can actually fight this poorly, but it does prove my point.

Alrighty...first of all...this is NOT a multiple oppenent scenario...secondly, these things usually arise out of mutual consent to fight, and as such, rules do apply. (if the asian kid had started to gouge whiteboyz eye or grabbed him by the nuts, he might've been stomped by the others in the group, and it would've become a multiple opponent, for real, type of scenario.)
This tape shows what would be the equivalent of two untrained fighters engaging in sportive combat over some sort of beef. It's essentially elective vale tudo...not a two person unarmed fight for keeps. (and how fucking often does that happen???)


An example of a real multiple opponent scenario would be a fight in Bumfights, where a whole bunch of opposing gang members start to brawl...it ends with a gunshot, and everyone scattering. Get the difference?

[Garland]

heya pal...was this directed at me by any off chance?

[BoarSpear]

Boarspear I agree with you completely about wanting to stay off the ground.

However, I feel the strength of grappling, especially BJJ is learning to fight off your back. Anyone can do damage from the top in a fight, even with no training, its fairly easy to punch down at someone.

Because being on your back (mount, gaurd, or sidemount) is the worst position for you in a streetfight, the strength of grappling particularly BJJ is being able to defend yourself while on your back, and reverse the positions or get back up to your feet.

I know you dont want to be on the ground in any type of real life situation, so wouldnt training that helps you get off the ground, or helps you get to the most advantageous position on the ground be extremely important.

I'm not saying other things arent as important or more important for street self defense, people just seem to overlook this fact.

Sure a little ground game is good, but a whole bunch of FMA and firearm training is WAY better for SD. And as garland pointed out properly applied KM and or Dumog will ruin a grapplers day...

Most crappy fighters DO seem to wind up on the ground...does that mean all fights go to the ground? or just the ones with crappy fighters....

[Garland]

Sure a little ground game is good, but a whole bunch of FMA and firearm training is WAY better for SD. And as garland pointed out properly applied KM and or Dumog will ruin a grapplers day...

Most crappy fighters DO seem to wind up on the ground...does that mean all fights go to the ground? or just the ones with crappy fighters....

If it's a two person scrap, usually people will stay out of it and let the fighters brawl, slug, and "wrassle" until they quit, unless somebody pulls some shit. If that's the case...there's no real need for tactics that might get you into a great deal more trouble legally (i.e. smashing their face into a curb until their toes curl in, or plunging and grinding your thumbs into their eye-sockets)

These things are usually consentual fights, or one's where it's just typical machismo bullshit, which can be dealt with just by pummeling the person to pulp. (submissions in a street fight is stupid...think about it..."okay, you done? You absolutely PROMISE not to come up swinging if I let up on you??"
If you have a limb, break it...choking somebody out like this could be equally stupid, because you HAVE to make them unconscious...which may mean killing them, because you won't want to stay long enough to give them CPR or mouth to mouth, will you?)

Mounting and punching seems to be a pretty economical and, in fact, pretty damned intelligent option...especially because it isn't the type of thing where either person is trying to cripple or "finish" the opponent off.

[jkelbaugh]

good post

I'd have to say mixing muay thai, judo (maybe) and BJJ would make for a very well rounded set of skills. Muay thai for general stand-up, footwork, kicking, knees, and clinching which then flows into judo takedowns and throws, which then naturally flows into ground-work with BJJ mixed in with modified muay thai elbows and knees.

I'm not sold on the Judo part. Maybe regular jiu jitsu...*shrug* I really like the idea of mixing MT with BJJ though.

i really see eye to eye with you here man a lot of people dismiss bjj for street fighting because of its focus on one opponant at a time but im here to tell you no martial art in the world can prepare you for an open ended assault from several different attackers the only thing that can help you in a situation such as this is the lord almighty maybe a late arrival from afew of youre friends that being said one cannot deny the possibilities of a fight going to the ground and we all know that bjj is the best in that department combine that with the wicked arsenal of muay thai your going to be hard to beat (one on one that is )

[BoarSpear]

If it's a two person scrap, usually people will stay out of it and let the fighters brawl, slug, and "wrassle" until they quit, unless somebody pulls some shit. If that's the case...there's no real need for tactics that might get you into a great deal more trouble legally (i.e. smashing their face into a curb until their toes curl in, or plunging and grinding your thumbs into their eye-sockets)

These things are usually consentual fights, or one's where it's just typical machismo bullshit, which can be dealt with just by pummeling the person to pulp. (submissions in a street fight is stupid...think about it..."okay, you done? You absolutely PROMISE not to come up swinging if I let up on you??"
If you have a limb, break it...choking somebody out like this could be equally stupid, because you HAVE to make them unconscious...which may mean killing them, because you won't want to stay long enough to give them CPR or mouth to mouth, will you?)

Mounting and punching seems to be a pretty economical and, in fact, pretty damned intelligent option...especially because it isn't the type of thing where either person is trying to cripple or "finish" the opponent off.

Hey, Ive said it a million times, one more wont hurt...BJJ is the BOMB for fighting....in highschool...or when its a bullshit completly avoidable "meet me in the alley type fight"...ANY SD situation where DANGER is present, the ground is the place the bodies land...the ground is death in a life and death struggle...bike week just ended, as usual there were young dumbasses who found out first hand what a "BOOT PARTY" is....stay off the ground when fighting adults...

[jubaji]

the same bullshit over and over and over again.............

[danfaggella]

Though not all submissions are logical on concrete and with no rules whatsoever, if you take a guy down and obtain side contol, and in the midst of your flurry he sticks an arm up, then it might as well be as good as broken since your average attacked itsn't going to know grappling arts. By shattering that joint the fight is clearly over, if you want you can even grab the mangled arm and tweak all those nerve endings around the torn tissue and fragments of bone until the guy passes out from pain. If the fight ends up on the ground, submissions are often logical, and if someone like myself was in a one on one confrontation and needed to fight or be mugged/killed/ect... I might have to take the fight to the pavement because I know little about striking. Though, clearly, in your average street fight situation, a few sharp strikes and a fast sprint are your safest options IMO.

[Tom Yum]

Lines

Replaced by MCMAP?

[Tom Yum]

Hey, Ive said it a million times, one more wont hurt...BJJ is the BOMB for fighting....in highschool...or when its a bullshit completly avoidable "meet me in the alley type fight"...ANY SD situation where DANGER is present, the ground is the place the bodies land...the ground is death in a life and death struggle...bike week just ended, as usual there were young dumbasses who found out first hand what a "BOOT PARTY" is....stay off the ground when fighting adults...

I'd like to add one more situation, that really falls into the one on one BJJ advantage. America's Most Wanted showed a re-enactment of an escaped convict who ran into some dudes home, tackled him and choked him with his bare hands. This is definitely a BJJ type situation, as sprawling, bridging and mount reversals are an everyday type drill.