cops get beat, lots of lessons - discuss.

[gregimotis]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/stationfight.html

so, watch the video - if you can't get it, just go to ebaumsworld and find it there. Granted, it's not a 'self-defense, exactly, as it occurs in a police station but...


A couple interesting things happen:

One guy fights off three cops (yeah, of course he loses eventually) with sheer aggression and a lot of moving around.

Pepper spray doesn't hardly phase him, but it drives one of the cops out of the fight - and the room.

Seems to me this fight would have ended faster if even one of those cops had grabbed that guy and just held on until the others dragged him down. but instead they almost took turns attacking. Particularly 'baton/pepper spray officer' who acted downright cowardly.

Overall lessons?

1) Once the fight is on, aggression gets you a lot further than pepper spray, friends, size, or anything else..

2) Pepper spray works better on people who care about their eyes than people who care about kicking you're ass.

3) Multiple attackers maybe does not equal an automatic whuppin' if you keep moving, stay aggressive and escape when you can (unless you're in a police station, of course, then you're going down eventually)

[tunafisher]

Some comments

Yeah, I've seen this video clip before....I work in an acute psychiatric hospital, and have been involved in hundreds of takedowns over the years with violent mental patients. I have gone through many hours of physical assault response training and management of assaultive behavior courses, as well as having been involved with BJJ since 1996, which of course you can never use in an institutional setting. My comments:

First of all, before any of the physical contact starts happening, the first cop doing the fingerprinting loses the fight before it even starts...he gets into a power struggle with the suspect, and also disrespects the suspect, further escalating the conflict. He also gets into the "Because I told you so" mentality, which doesn't go over real big with deescalating a conflict. In this situation, you don't want you or your fellow officers getting injured, you want to deescalate. Calling the suspect "sir" and using "please" go a long way. Even though it feels like the last thing you want to do, you override it and do it. Respecting someone who gets no respect most of their lives usually works wonders. I have used this technique many times with good results.

The first cop then uses pepper spray and nails the other officer, taking him out of the fight. It's three on one, so you have just eliminated 33% of your strength. I wonder what would've happened if all of them backed off and regrouped out in the hall....those holding room doors lock. And then gave the suspect time to cool off, while the officers go and get a bunch of people for an extreme show of force. This technique works wonders. When there are 10 guys, even a big guy loses his fight than if it were only 3 guys.

Just some comments....I wasn't there and I wasn't one of the officers so who knows? Cops have such a difficult job 'cause suspects are jacked up on crystal, PCP, are mentally ill, have blood borne diseases...etc. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback....I'll tell you one thing, in my experience, the smaller guys will give you way more trouble than the big guys. They are used to taking shit and are generally tougher. The big guys aren't used to people standing up to them and challenging them...

Just my .02

[gregimotis]

Respecting someone who gets no respect most of their lives usually works wonders.

One of the more insightful comments I've read here in a while.

[AlexJitsu]

I could just imagine if someone with MMA training was in the room. Right cross to the face, bearhug, suplex, RNC. It would neutralize the attacker, look cool as hell, and make you a hero.