what should i take?

[Blue Wave Gym]

whats the difference between bjj and jjj?

also judo is mostly take down isnt it? and if so why take that when bjj does that and grappling as well as take downs? if im wrong in that, feel free to correct me.

the difference between bjj and jjj> harold howard "I'm a ju-jitsu man myself so I look forward do facing mr. gracie because he's a ju-jitsu man too" LOL
theres a big difference between jjj and bjj.Bjj is light years ahead
yes there's alot of emphasis on throwinig in judo but once you hit the ground you use arm bars chokes and many other holds just no leg submissions.A bjj person is happy to just get their opponent to the ground, the judo person belives it's important how they get their i.e. hit them with the planet(a fmr judo teach of mine)

[Tant01]

Not exactly...

i assume jjj is japanese jui-jitsu??

if so, bjj could be considered a refinement and expansion of jjj. jjj was limited to some short sweet brutal joint manipulations... i believe these were originally designed to prepare samurai during close quarter fighting where drawing swords was difficult.

bjj, along with aikido and judo, took the principles of joint manipualtion from jjj and developed them into the modern arts we know them as now. the original techniques of jjj are somewhat crude and not many of them.

.....

regards
blend

The Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu comes from Kodokan Judo.

The techniques in Judo kata are the same as the techniques from the old style Ju-jutsu.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/earlyjudo.gif (circa 1906?)

http://www.judoinfo.com/koshiki.htm

http://www.judoinfo.com/kata.htm

http://www.judoinfo.com/tomiki2.htm

[twtguy]

thanks for all of the responses. i didnt expect everyone to be so helpful here. i think i will end up taking the karate class because it is more mixed martial arts than anything and i think thats what im looking for. by the way i did mean japanese jui-jitsu (jjj). sorry for being ambiguous. you guys are a lot of help.

i actually went out and got the Ultimate Fighting Techniques Volume 1 by royce gracie also because i would like to get more into bjj. i know its hard to learn from a book but, i have a friend that i freestyle spar with (hes pks same as chuck norris for all of you that hate him lol) and ill try it out on him. good idea? bad idea?

[THT]

judo comes from JJ, its just takedowns mostly, more family friendly. Its good to know throws and takedowns, but better to know how to finish someone on the ground when you get them their. Lots of BJJ black belts have blacks in Judo also. We had a Judo black belt start BJJ and he competed as a white belt in a BJJ tourney and tossed the guys around it was kinda unfair.
Not sure the diff between BJJ and JJJ, but the Brazilians perfected the art and added leglocks the last 15 years to its teachings far as I know

Judo also has plenty of submissions and groundwork. This is where the term ne waza comes from I believe. Judo is just known best for it's throws because of the rules and scoring in olympic judo.


To answer the question regarding differences between Japanese JJ and Braqzilian JJ I would recomend reading the first few chapters of Renzo Gracies Book Masterin Jiu Jitsu. It has a lot about the history of Judo and JJ including what sprang from which and the how and why of it all.




Whoops I hadn't finished reading all the posts before putting my two cents in. Sorry to reiterate old info.

Still a good book though

[IPON]

judo comes from JJ, its just takedowns mostly, more family friendly. Its good to know throws and takedowns, but better to know how to finish someone on the ground when you get them their.

Look the guy only has 2 choices, you and blue wave ride the MMA/BJJ bandwagon that's fine but stick to the topic (even though yes it was posted in the MMA section). Plus you both make too many assumptions. First you assume that everyone wants to grapple and the reality everyone does not nor can everyone be proficient at grappling. And Second that MMA/ or BJJ is the ultimate end all be all of MA sorry fellas its not.

Regarding Judo you have a very narrow view my friend the Judo I studied was hardly "family friendly" plus don't be so quick to assume every BJJ dojo is hard core because they are not. The judo I learned was 50/50 (Nage Waza/Ne Waza). Yes there is a difference of philosophy in Judo vs BJJ one throw can and will end a fight remember they are not being thrown on tatami. The problem is you should not assume that someone is wrong in thier choice of MA because of a difference in philosophy, one works for Judo one works for BJJ or Aikido....simple.

I like to quote a statement made by the late Kazuzo Kudo in his text on grappling techniques entitled, "Dynamic Judo". He states: "The throws and grappling techniques [of judo] are as inseparable as the front and rear wheels of an automobile." (www.judoinfo.com)


Blend no offense but you are correct you are not an expert of JJ. Osensei created as much from Daito Ryu Aiki Jujitsu as Helio Gracie created from Judo, in regards to actual technique..........not much. The true difference lies in the philosophy. But to say theat current Jujutsu is not practiced for real application is beyond just being wrong it is silly.

But again all of this is off topic. If you was to answer the question fine otherwise don't try to brainwash the innocent


twtguy: Chuck Norris background style is Tang Soo Do (a Korean art) he is currently studying BJJ with the Machados

Regarding Kick boxing and MT: It a world of difference from the style to the training. Basically kickboxers are karate stylist that get into the ring with 30/70 (punching/kicking). MT is a legitimate MA that uses elbows, knees and a lot of clinch work. I would do a search in the MT forum there are better explanations given and good information provided.

[Tant01]

i live in a part of michigan where there is only tkd or karate.

p.s. ..... what is the difference between muay thai and kickboxing?

....whats the difference between bjj and jjj?

...also judo is mostly take down isnt it?

and if so why take that when bjj does that and grappling as well as take downs?

Take TKD and Karate!


ANY MORE QUESTIONS?!

[blend]

Blend no offense but you are correct you are not an expert of JJ. Osensei created as much from Daito Ryu Aiki Jujitsu as Helio Gracie created from Judo, in regards to actual technique..........not much. The true difference lies in the philosophy. But to say theat current Jujutsu is not practiced for real application is beyond just being wrong it is silly.

mmm... thankyou for straightening me out on that one

you are right, i am certainly no expert on jj. nevertheless, i do speak with years of training in both aikikai aikido and bjj. i say this humbly to illustrate i am no couch artist playing on forums.

quite possibly my original post may have been too ambiguous in it's wording and left too much room for interpretation. i am fully aware of the historical lineage and the links between DR aiki jujitsu n modern aikido. exactly how much one influenced the other is open to interpretation, tho i do i agree whole-heartedly with your observation... it is essentially a difference in philosophy.

i diverge with you on my opinion of the modern practicality of jjj. i still stand by what i said originally... that jjj is a much cruder art. true, some of the techniques may have a modern application, however, i'm lead to believe the techniques in jjj can be essentially found in modern aikido and in a more refined state. this opinion was formed based on my aikido sempai's experience with his jjj classes in japan. therefore, i could be off-track and am open to be further educated on the matter.

regards
blend

[twtguy]

twtguy: Chuck Norris background style is Tang Soo Do (a Korean art) he is currently studying BJJ with the Machados

the friend that i spar with was in pks in minnesota and he said thats what chuck norris took. i am confused but, to put two and two together, he did say that his teachers were teaching tang soo do even though the sign says karate. why would people put karate on a sign and teach something different? (that was a rhetorical question) oh well. i am confused but, i no longer care because chuck norris is of no concern to me. once again thanks for all of the help.

ANY MORE QUESTIONS?!

yes. aren't forums for people who seek answers as well as opinions? if so that would require questions and the wise ask a lot of questions.

[THT]

yes. aren't forums for people who seek answers as well as opinions? if so that would require questions and the wise ask a lot of questions.

Well put man, cheers!

[Tant01]

.....once again thanks for all of the help.

Tanto 1>>> "ANYMORE QUESTIONS?"

yes. aren't forums for people who seek answers as well as opinions? if so that would require questions and the wise ask a lot of questions.

I am delighted with the enthusiasm of many of the students here and impressed with the knowledge of some of the members here too. With that in mind (and all due respect) we need to consider that there are also a number of members with less knowledge posting what amounts to garbage or in my humble opinion, MIS information. A good student will do his homework and can come here and sort out the good stuff from the rhetoric but SOME folks come here expecting to find some kind of authoritative source for knowledge. Accurate historical accounts and facts. Opinions are fine as long as it's offered in the constructive or CAUTIONARY way... The wise will offer advise when asked but a fool is always making noise...

[IPON]

i diverge with you on my opinion of the modern practicality of jjj. I still stand by what i said originally... that jjj is a much cruder art. true, some of the techniques may have a modern application, however, i'm lead to believe the techniques in jjj can be essentially found in modern aikido and in a more refined state.

Blend: I respect your position and background and I will try to answer your questions as much as possible. I will not try to change your mind per se but I think doing your own research should lead in better directions.

First I think we have to be mindful of perception. There are many the would put Aikido in the same category as TKD in terms of useless technique…we both know that is not true but many would argue the point. Many would argue that a lot of techniques of JJJ are useless or unrealistic and to some extent that is true but it is true in every MA. It is not surprising that you find techniques of jjj in Ai-Ki-Do as you know it is based on aikijujutsu.

JJJ offshoots
Aikido
Hapkido (with debate)
Judo

Judo Offshoots:
Brasilian JJ
Sambo

Now I do know what you mean by crude but the translation of “gentle” is often misleading, JJJ is not nor should it be practiced lightly. The purpose is to restrain, maim and if necessary kill your opponent. In fact the criticism is always of the brutality of JJJ, not the ineffectiveness. I have studied JJJ for many years and can tell you that I have seen some styles that are not worth the name or even the effort to show up to practice......sad but true. But there are many styles of JJJ that are quite good and not at all unrefined. I have not been to Japan so I am not sure of what your instructor regards as “crude” or if it is simply different or if it was crude but just that one style.

I am just rambling I hope this helps if not I will try a better response after I get sleep

[IPON]

the friend that i spar with was in pks in minnesota and he said thats what chuck norris took. i am confused but, to put two and two together, he did say that his teachers were teaching tang soo do even though the sign says karate.

Karate is a generic term for empty hand styles. Okinawa, Japan and Korea use the term. So essentially Tang Soo Do is Korean Karate. That is the simplified answer.