Prison rape

[Knuckles&Knees]

Hi Knuckles,

Regarding your uncle, were people afraid of him in part because of his martial arts background? Or was it incidental to the other factors that you mentioned?

Of course I can't say for certain, but the impression I've gotten was it had more to do with his physical size (he was close to 300 lbs in the joint - but he's not real tall) such as his chest looking like a metaphorical shelf, and it also having to do with the fights he got into.

He got into a number of fights in prison. Everyone was not afraid of him. He was stabbed once in the face by a gang-banger (a young guy much smaller than him) and he quickly beat the young guy down. He got in another fight with some huge white supremist (sp?), as recounted by both him and another excon friend of his. Supposedly this dude was quite tall and quite big. My uncle said if the guy had landed on him he might have gotten knocked out, but according to my uncle he (my uncle) was much faster than the guy and also fought with his elbows and knees (basically his martial arts).

Keep in mind, my uncle also did kick boxing in his younger years, and came up in the 60's and 70's Karate world were dudes placed a lot of emphasis on "toughness." The Karate world of that era had a lot of competitions - from what I'm told at least - were they would beat the s*it out of each others upper torsos with bare knuckles and kicks.

I can't imagine cons neing afraid of someone just because they are known to do martial arts ,but then, as I said, I've never been to prison. Hope to keep it that way as well!

To be honest with you my uncle is or can be a quite violent man. His comfort with violence and ability to muster such high levels of it probably has as much or more to do with any of that than his martial arts. He's in at least his 50's and still gets in plenty of street fights. He's a very intimidating looking person also.

[Bullseye]

Hi,

How is it you uncle gets in so many fights? I am surprised as I would have imagined that people would generally avoid fighting someone as intimidating as your uncle (going from your description of course).

Regarding size, did your uncle give you the impression that bigger guys are more likely to be left alone in prison? The original topic was people being sexually victimised in prison, and I have read interviews with an ex-con who seemed to be saying that acting aggressive didn't mean a person would be left alone.

Was size a big factor in who got vitimised and who didn't? I am not a big guy, so if it was, that's one more reason for me to avoid prison.

[Hardball]

You guys watch too many Oz Reruns. LOL.

If you are African American and find yourself in prison the best thing to do is join the Muslims as soon as possible. Statistics show (can't document it right now) that African American Muslim men are the most unlikely rape victims in a prison environment. ( Footnote: Muslim=Farrakan's Outfit)

If you are Caucasion, you need to join up with a powerful Caucasion click such as the Aryan Nation.

Being a loner in prison is bad news.

[Bullseye]

Hello,

Don't see what OZ has to do with it. I was asking about the relevance of size in respect to being victimised.

I agree with your point about joining a gang. If one were unlucky enough to end up in such a sitaution, joining one group or other would seem to offer the best option for survival.

[Knuckles&Knees]

Hi,

How is it you uncle gets in so many fights? I am surprised as I would have imagined that people would generally avoid fighting someone as intimidating as your uncle (going from your description of course).

I think the answer to that is multilayered. My uncle for one, can be something of a bully towards certain people. Secondly, he has a tremendous amount of rage.

Now don't get me wrong, he can be cool, and he has an enjoyable personality which many women can end up liking. But he has a deep rage, and violent inclination, plus he's around atmospheres that give a lot of opportunity for violence.

All people are different, but in the "hood" most young men have some lesser or greater degree of predatory instinct in them, but that does not mean even half of them are "tough."

There are many young 20 something year olds, who while in a number of 3 or 4 would have no problem courting my uncles ability or trying to challenge him in some way. It is the nature of the "hood." (not every single person in the inner cities carries guns either - it's an urban legend - just like being from Chicago "makes you tough")

Regarding size, did your uncle give you the impression that bigger guys are more likely to be left alone in prison? The original topic was people being sexually victimised in prison, and I have read interviews with an ex-con who seemed to be saying that acting aggressive didn't mean a person would be left alone.

Was size a big factor in who got vitimised and who didn't? I am not a big guy, so if it was, that's one more reason for me to avoid prison.

I really can't answer that because I never really asked him like that. He just admitted to me that most the studs in there (the joint) can't fight (as in can't fight good) but that they will attack someone like me (or anyone) in numbers.

[Bullseye]

Hi Knuckles,

Thanks for the info.

[Hardball]

Hello,

Don't see what OZ has to do with it. I was asking about the relevance of size in respect to being victimised.

In the Hit Prison Show Oz, size didn't matter because most rapes on that show were gang rapes or multiple attacks or attacks with home made shanks thus negating the size issue.

[Knuckles&Knees]

Here's a documentary done by HBO on a prison murder. The documentary covers aspects of violence and rape in prison (the show claims 140,000 people have possibly been raped in prison). Warning: It has graphic parts in the film.

The documentary is kind of heartfelt and "real" though (in the sense of real human emotions or lack of).

This site host free documentaries by the way.

HBO documentary: http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/gladiator_days.php

[Bullseye]

Thanks for posting that link.

I think the girl, in particular, came across as being really pathetic. I really got the impression she was crying crocodile tears for the guy who was shot.

The boy seems like a sociopath. I'm no expert, but he seemed that way.

[A-Zo]

Well, fighting skills will definitely help you in prison, but only so much. You definitely can't let people take advantage of you, but the sad thing is... it doesn't really matter how tough you are, if they want to make you their bitch or harm you, it's inevitable. However, the rule is, whatever race you are (black, white, latino, etc) you must join up with you own people. If you are white, and you want to hang around with black guys, it's not gonna fly with the likes of the Arian Brotherhood. You either join up with them or they make your life hell, or kill you. They are too powerful and there are too many of them to avoid. Same goes for African Americans or Latinos.

You stick with your own kind in prison, you fight who you need to, and you join that gang. You can't be a punk, or forget about it. Make a few examples when you need to, but don't piss off the ones who will have your back.

As far as fighting styles go, street fighting, pure blood in blood out fighting. You need to beat the shit out of someone, and then bounce their head off the ground, or finish them of, you need to be ruthless. Put the fear of god in others. Otherwise, they will mess with you until you break.

It's a terrible place to be, and when you come out, you will be hardened. It's no joke.

I have a cousin (white), who went into a max security in Chicago. He just got out this year, and has told me some horror stories. He saw men get carved up with make shift knives. He even told me about the gangs, and how they run shit. The Arian Brotherhood and Mexican Mafia have the biggest influence, and you don't mess with either of them. Drugs are also a large problem. Once your in jail, in a max security jail at least, you fight for your life, but protect yourself by joining a gang. Otherwise, your dead either way.

[Bullseye]

A-Zo,

If you don't mind me asking, have you ever been in prison?

[Hardball]

What if you're Black but you speak Spanish?

[Knuckles&Knees]

Well, fighting skills will definitely help you in prison, but only so much. You definitely can't let people take advantage of you, but the sad thing is... it doesn't really matter how tough you are, if they want to make you their bitch or harm you, it's inevitable. However, the rule is, whatever race you are (black, white, latino, etc) you must join up with you own people. If you are white, and you want to hang around with black guys, it's not gonna fly with the likes of the Arian Brotherhood. You either join up with them or they make your life hell, or kill you. They are too powerful and there are too many of them to avoid. Same goes for African Americans or Latinos.

You stick with your own kind in prison, you fight who you need to, and you join that gang. You can't be a punk, or forget about it. Make a few examples when you need to, but don't piss off the ones who will have your back.

As far as fighting styles go, street fighting, pure blood in blood out fighting. You need to beat the shit out of someone, and then bounce their head off the ground, or finish them of, you need to be ruthless. Put the fear of god in others. Otherwise, they will mess with you until you break.

It's a terrible place to be, and when you come out, you will be hardened. It's no joke.

I have a cousin (white), who went into a max security in Chicago. He just got out this year, and has told me some horror stories. He saw men get carved up with make shift knives. He even told me about the gangs, and how they run shit. The Arian Brotherhood and Mexican Mafia have the biggest influence, and you don't mess with either of them. Drugs are also a large problem. Once your in jail, in a max security jail at least, you fight for your life, but protect yourself by joining a gang. Otherwise, your dead either way.

At the risk of getting into an unfriendly disagreement with you... I think some of what you describe really has to do with *what prison* you go to or even the national region in which prison you are located in.

The West Coast region of the United States - California in particular - has some notorious, contemporary, racial antagonisms and "warfare" (for lack of a better word) going on. It's probably like this in southern Midwestern regions like Texas also (the prison birth place of the Mexican Mafia I believe).

I'm from the Northern Midwestern region and there are *very* few Mexican Mafia members around these ways. For sure there are some MM members here, but they in terms of numbers are a "drop in the bucket." The Latin King's are probably the largest Latino gang in the Midwest.

The Aryan Brotherhood are in the Midwestern prison systems also. However, white inmates often make up the *minority* within any given prison (perhaps in some prisons or states this is not so?). That being the case, in many Northern Midwestern prisons you'll find GD's, VL's, or El Rukins "running" the prison so to speak. Those three gangs or "organizations" are Black-American organizations. I would not doubt in certain Midwestern prisons the Latin Kings "run" the prison so to speak.

It is true that even in Midwestern prisons the racial animosities exist and are part of prison politics. Nonetheless, from my understanding, they are not as "bad" so to speak as the prison systems racial hatreds out in California. A white guy - in his 40's I believe - that I know, has been to prison (in the Northern Midwest) something like 5 times. He's told me there are basically racial tensions in prison, but I also recall him telling me how he would purchase certain contraband from black gang members in prison. One of his white inmate friends apparently did not like that, but nothing happened to him and apparently it's not uncommon that prison for white inmates to socialize with Latino or black inmates and or spend money with them.

[Knuckles&Knees]

What if you're Black but you speak Spanish?

Ha ha! Good question.

If you're in the Midwest that probably means you down with the Latinos or the LK's specifically (maybe). There are black Latinos and black LK's.

Many Puerto Ricans span the color (even within a single extend family) from white, to mulatto, to black.

Mexicans of course, while they do have some mulattoes, and more especially white phenotype peoples, they are very often times "dark" so to speak mestizos. (by dark I just mean darker than what we in the U.S. think of as white phenotype)

[A-Zo]

To answer the question, no I have not been in prison. I've basically learned a thing or two from various friends going in and out. And Knuckles...I agree with everything you said. It definitely is situational, and per prison. And, as far as the geographical breakdown goes, you seem to be spot on. However, the size of these gangs grows continually. Also, if you are black and speak Spanish, it definitely won't hurt, but it would depend more on your association. I'm not saying it's utterly impossible to avoid all these dangers, but it's not an easy thing to accomplish. Some people slip by the radar. Unfortunately, if someone like myself, who is 6'6 and weighs 310 lbs was to go in prison. I would be seen as a asset or a threat. So, I wouldn't have much choice in the matter.