So you think BJJ is effective for street self defense?

[sapatiero]

Where it all came from

Has anyone on this thread spent time with the guys in Torrance? In the beginners classes, Rorion or the boys focus initially on self defense, mainly from a standing position. You could say it's old school, and that it doesn't win competitions like the Barra style, but it's Helios legacy, and to me, it looks pretty practical.

The intermediate & advanced classes are more competition based, but still focus on the basics - and that's what the boys do extremely well. You won't learn 101 ways to do a omnagogoplatasweep, but you'll end up with a good solid topmount that works in the real world.

I know that you don't wanna be on the floor if it's anything other that 1-on-1, and that it's best to just run if faced with a weapon, but their self defense stuff does work IMHO.

[IPON]

the only thing lamer than jumanji are his one liners. -fu oh wait, then again there are the dudes who like samurai are always hanging of the sacks of tom yum or mike b. i aint talkin shit about tom or mike cause they contribute tons, but some of these dudes here straight up look like they just finished a chocolate pie eating contest cause their noses are so brown. and they are pretty damn lame. be careful with the things u say on the forum tom and mike, u guys might get stalkers or something. there are people on this forum that worship u. next thing u know we will be reading posts like "i caught Samurai looking in my bedroom window last night" and whatnot. although it would prob be jumanji doing that more than anyone though.
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LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - That's funny

[IPON]

I don't know if this is helpful (probably not) but here are my thoughts. First I love defendnet this is the main site I view and post. There are alot of people with some very good MA experience that people really should just stop, think about what is being stated and use as applicable. That is the great part of this site every style is up for analysis and judge/criticism and that the way it should be. At lest if there is benefit, the criticism/remarks should should be attempts to enhance or evolve not the petty "my style is better than your".

I am a grappler first and foremost. But I live by this principle "you should always respect another person, if you can't then show respect for what this person may know". For example I worked with this one particular bouncer and I noticed that the majority of fights that broke were usually a result the other bouncers being dickheads. I was talking to one of them (a very good boxer who was interested in the "fantasy of MA") but I told basically how I would injure him with some of the stuff he pulled with other patrons. His response "oh, I would do that to you know too much shit" Yeah but if I didn't work here and you never met me you would not know"

Anyway, back to the thread. I have bought allot of Gracie/Machado material and I have to say that the SD that is taught is extremely basic and generic. Now with that being said there are certainly other style that are just as basic. The points that are raise about BJJ are valid and should only be taken as a cautions. for someone to say BJJ has no merit is beyond ignorant. But it is just as ignorant to here many of the BJJ player being so critical of other styles and not of there own. The problem is the cockiness of BJJ and the illusion that it was/is the best style. Now if you say that then you have to live up to that claim. Other styles do not make that claim and cannot share the same type of criticism. Oh and believe me this was simply great marketing strategy. But the problem is that students, so critical of other styles refuse to look art their own. One thread said BJJ was the ultimate, well if that were true then you would not need to cross train. You cross train because the system is missing some element or it is not sufficient (better kicks, striking, etc). I have questioned the lineage of BJJ and stated many times that BJJ is simply prewar Judo and that there is no lineage to a jujutsu ryu. I have criticized the Gracies for lies, misleading or inaccurate information. But these at academic criticism attempting to find some truth. I hold the Gracies and BJJ is hi regard, in fact without the Gracies most Judoka would not look in the mirror and dig in the system to see what was forgotten.

So if you want to be a grappler that is fine, even if you want to go to the ground or pull guard at the first sign of an altercation. I certainly have a different philosophy but the idea should be to take these precautions stated in the thread evaluate if that is still the same course of action you want. If so, then modify your training to accommodate these points so you are not caught with you pants down (umm as a phrase)

[SamuraiGuy]

the only thing lamer than jumanji are his one liners. -fu oh wait, then again there are the dudes who like samurai are always hanging of the sacks of tom yum or mike b. i aint talkin shit about tom or mike cause they contribute tons, but some of these dudes here straight up look like they just finished a chocolate pie eating contest cause their noses are so brown. and they are pretty damn lame. be careful with the things u say on the forum tom and mike, u guys might get stalkers or something. there are people on this forum that worship u. next thing u know we will be reading posts like "i caught Samurai looking in my bedroom window last night" and whatnot. although it would prob be jumanji doing that more than anyone though.

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Haha you know why thats funny... if you had read some of my other posts... I call someone else a Mike_Brewer nuthugger, that someone else was Uke.

Haha you used the term brown noser... but I used the term nut hugger , its basically the same thing... and if you'll notice in the same thread where I called uke a nuthugger, I said you dont always have to agree with Brewers points.... would a brown noser do that?...

oh, so it looks like your just a dumbass, thanks.

I dont know where you thought to bring this up from, the whole calling me a brown noser... but I think its kinda funny you just start trying to flame me out of nowhere... and for the record, I do agree with alot of what Brewer has to say, but I do disagree with him on some things, for instance how practical his beer bottle arrowhead thing is...

BTW, I cant recall ever agreeing with anything Tom has said... not that im saying hes wrong... but I just cant remember it... I sure am a Tom Nuthugger though, me knowing nothing about him and all... stop being such a douche, I thought what Jubaji said was funny.... and now im hiding outside peoples windows... your a wierdo...

[Sensei Saki]

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

[BoarSpear]

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

Huh? what were you saying? your avatar distracted me...

[JkD187]

i cant believe this thread is still goining on.....you know what **** bjj..**** muay thai....karate.. wrestling... judo.. kung fu...taekwon do....**** mma **** it alllllllllllllll, REX KWON DO BABY

[LoneHusky]

what's the name of that lil bjj guy who does flying armbars and other moves while the opponent is standing?

[JkD187]

are you refering to rumina sato or genki sudo? rumina fights in shooto and genki fought in the ufc/k1/pancrase

[Uke]

Haha you know why thats funny... if you had read some of my other posts... I call someone else a Mike_Brewer nuthugger, that someone else was Uke.

Haha you used the term brown noser... but I used the term nut hugger , its basically the same thing... and if you'll notice in the same thread where I called uke a nuthugger, I said you dont always have to agree with Brewers points.... would a brown noser do that?...

oh, so it looks like your just a dumbass, thanks.

I dont know where you thought to bring this up from, the whole calling me a brown noser... but I think its kinda funny you just start trying to flame me out of nowhere... and for the record, I do agree with alot of what Brewer has to say, but I do disagree with him on some things, for instance how practical his beer bottle arrowhead thing is...

BTW, I cant recall ever agreeing with anything Tom has said... not that im saying hes wrong... but I just cant remember it... I sure am a Tom Nuthugger though, me knowing nothing about him and all... stop being such a douche, I thought what Jubaji said was funny.... and now im hiding outside peoples windows... your a wierdo...

You know SamuraiGuy, EmtyneSs is entitled to his opinion. And what he had to say was very funny, as others have pointed out in their replies. Could it be a case of the same situation where you said I took "nuthugger" the wrong way, you could be taking EmptyneSs saying that you have a crush on Mike B and Tom the wrong way? If I was a nuthugger in your eyes because I enjoyed and agreed on JUST one post from Mike, what does that make you for all the many, many posts you agree with? And its just his opinion. There's no reason to cut him up.

Also, I agree with Mike about the beer bottle arrowhead. Not because Mike said it. But because I know it to be true because I have taken classes with Tom Brown who knows more about survival and improvising than probably everyone here.

No offense SamuraiGuy, but it was just hilarious. hehehe

[Tom Yum]

Bjj

The BJJ craze hasn't ended. More and more people are enrolling in it. It may get less attention in MMA media, but it is alive and well.

What is different from BJJ then other arts is that practitioners learn on the mat by grappling. They aren't taught one technique and practice it again and again with compliant partners until they are a black belt, like many other arts do. They practice it a few times with compliance to get it down and they put it to work on the mat. If they can't pull it off against a resisting opponent, they have to learn how to set it up and keep trying until they can.

If people are BJJ nuthuggers, so be it. Its an art where practioners have to prove themselves and work against resistance, so they get props for that. I think that's what most practioners respect. Its not perfect self-defense, but its good. Kali/escrima/silat aren't perfect self-defense, but they're really good.

Most MA's eventually become more and more sports oriented and diluted because MAs are hobbies for most and not a career, but there will allways be a few old schoolers who keep it real or guys who've been training forever. You can follow that trend in Tae kwon do, karate, judo or whichever art you choose.

[Uke]

Tom Yum

The BJJ craze hasn't ended. More and more people are enrolling in it. It may get less attention in MMA media, but it is alive and well.

Yeah, it is over. A craze is a mania, and BJJ mania is over. The craze began and lasted as long as people thought it was invincible. No one said the art is dead, or the business of it. But the craze definitely is. The self defense arts who still keep it in their curriculum mostly are doing so for the same reasons I've stated here on this topic. Tiger Schulmann Karate(TSK) schools are popping up all over the country. That chain of schools generate so much money that its probably the top money making MA school in the USA. But does that mean that TSK is the best karate or even close to it? The answer would be HELL NO. And there is no TSK craze either, as most serious martial artists look down upon TSK as a paper tiger style.

What is different from BJJ then other arts is that practitioners learn on the mat by grappling. They aren't taught one technique and practice it again and again with compliant partners until they are a black belt, like many other arts do. They practice it a few times with compliance to get it down and they put it to work on the mat. If they can't pull it off against a resisting opponent, they have to learn how to set it up and keep trying until they can.

Repetition has been used by all ranges, including boxing as a method of teaching. Not to use as a sole method, but to make sure that the technique that's being repeated is imprinted into the muscle memory. If a student doesn't have a grasp on a technique, it would be foolish to throw a student into sparring and expect him to execute it. And in the beginning partners have to be compliant for 2 reasons: 1) So the student gets the feel for the technique as well as the satisfaction of executing it and 2) Beginners usually muscle their way through techniques to compensate for a lack of understanding. If the partner wasn't compliant, he or the student might get hurt. After practicing a while, sparring without compliance will demonstrate how well the student has understood what he's practiced.

If people are BJJ nuthuggers, so be it. Its an art where practioners have to prove themselves and work against resistance, so they get props for that. I think that's what most practioners respect. Its not perfect self-defense, but its good. Kali/escrima/silat aren't perfect self-defense, but they're really good.

No art is perfect. And I haven't seen anyone here but BJJ sheep imply that. Many schools go all out in sparring, not just BJJ. Many of us here have gotten injured worse in the dojo than in the street. My teacher always taught that they are so hard on us in the dojo so that we would be that much more effective in the street. If you are accustomed to learning and sparring with professional teachers and fighters who beat you down to make you eventually rise to the occasion, then you will be ready as long as they're teaching you the right concepts from the right ranges.

Most MA's eventually become more and more sports oriented and diluted because MAs are hobbies for most and not a career, but there will allways be a few old schoolers who keep it real or guys who've been training forever. You can follow that trend in Tae kwon do, karate, judo or whichever art you choose.

I agree with that statement. That's an observation that I doubt anyone could dispute. But I'd like to add that some schools do a better job preparing "weekend warriors" for self defense than others. Many schools will just pad you along, taking your money and promoting you in rank as long as you keep paying. But then there are other schools that give you real knowledge, and on the first day that you leave you may feel a little overwhelmed, but you have at least picked up a few techniques that you'd use if a fight jumped off. Afterall, isn't that the entire point of self defense? Making the best self defense practitioner out of a man/woman in the shortest time possible?

Thanks for your comments, Tom Yum.

[jubaji]

Then shut the **** up already!

Yeah, it is over. A craze is a mania, and BJJ mania is over.

Wouldn't that make your little anti-BJJ mania unnecessary?

[LoneHusky]

are you refering to rumina sato or genki sudo? rumina fights in shooto and genki fought in the ufc/k1/pancrase

I'm not sure. I'll just call him sado.

[LoneHusky]

Wouldn't that make your little anti-BJJ mania unnecessary?

Now you know how Uke feels. His job here is done.