So you think BJJ is effective for street self defense?

[Uke]

jubaji

Hey shitbag, how did you do with the wrestling team?

Unlike you, I don't wrestle around with men in the missionary position. I hear you are focusing on the north/south mount position these days, or as we call it ...69. Enjoy yourself wrastlin' around with your face buried in your teacher's crotch, jubaji.

By the way jubaji, if you're going to be in that position so often, you might want to think of taking up grappling or BJJ. Just in case, ya know? You never can be too safe. Just thought I'd give some MA advice being that we're on a MA board.

Enjoy!

[Uke]

JkD187

Ya know what, JKD187? Then you keep on doing what you're doing. Can't get down to what works with someone who is only willing to talk and type about it. Its like debating with someone who watches tapes and draws conclusions from that. I appreciate your thoughts and input though.

And they're always welcomed, Bro!

[JkD187]

lol its ok bro thas why i love u and hate u....shyt what works for me is fighting against a resisting opponent who uses ditry tricks as well...i just posted in another forum about my my vale tudo sparring matches....with biting and eye gougeing...it was fun as hell.....and i just noticed its past 5:30 and weve been on this site all night...jesus we need lives. also where do u train uke id love 2 come down to your place for some friendly vale tudo training...but u cant stab me or shoot me or hit me with a bat or break a chair over my head....or else ill bring my gat wit me and show u a thing or 2

[EmptyneSs]

i've been following this thread for awhile and thought i'd weigh in after something that happened the other night.

me and my girl were walking down the street friday night in the city. across the street we noticed a group of about ten-15 guys, all looked like they were drunk, really rowdy and all crowding around a dude that was lying on the concrete. i thought they were kicking him but it was actually a street performer dick that was wrapped in a sheet and pretending to be dead (or something to that effect). there was a guy standing on a box next to him yelling religious stuff at the group of drunk guys.

i wanted to avoid the situation completely becasue the drunks looked like they were going to turn on the religious guy (heaps of yelling, swearing etc) but as usual my girl wanted to have a look. anyway the point of the story was that i thought to myself if any of these guys start grabbing or touching my wife i'm going to be in for a real shit fight. i do BJJ and i have to admit i felt very unprepared for the situation.

my gripe is not with BJJ but with myself for not forseeing this type of scenario and thinking about how i would approach it. when i used to train kung fu we used to do heaps of multiple opponent scenarios but since doing BJJ (over 2 years) i have done none at all.

i agree with what was said above, BJJ is great for ideal situations, but REALLY how often does an ideal situation come up? (ideal defined as one-on-one, no weapons, no friends jumping in etc)

*on the street - prob. never, too many people and unknowns
*in a homeinvasion/break in - prob. never, there would most likely be more than one person and weapons
*car jacking- maybe one person but highly likely a weapon. also doesn't suit grappling from my car seat

sure these are just a few scenarios but they all have one thing in common - more than one person or weapons

i think the sport vs street arguement misses the point, to me its more about one-on-one vs one-on many with the possibility of weapons

i agree that an mma guy would have great skills and fitness for the street but if i had a guy that trained pure mma for a year and a guy that did nothing but multiple opponent sparring and scenario training for a year i'd put my money on the multiple opponent guy. he might just hit and run or shove and run but at least he would have some 'plan' for the scenario i mentioned above.

long story short i'm thinking about diversifying my training
cheers

u need to realize the difference between the movies and real life. the fact is it didnt matter what style u trained in theres no way u will ever be able to take on 10 to 15 guys using hand to hand combat only. real life and martial arts arent like jackie chan and jet lee movies. sorry to dissapoint u man, u cant just take out a room full of people instantly. u probobly wouldnt even be able to handle 3. sometimes is extremely tough to beat even just 1 person. they could have weapons as well or train in martial arts too u never know.

there was a guy i used to go to highschool with who was killed a few years because he went to help his friend who was being confronted by a group of guys. sadly, the group of guys was a vietnamese gang and they stabbed him and even held him down after and put a power tool to his head. this guy who got killed was always trying to prove he was tough and loved to get in fights. i always knew he would end up in big trouble and sure enough he thought he was so tough that he and his friend could take on a group of skinny asian kids. they both got killed.

[cam427]

Boarspear,

I have never heard of these guys because they are only well known within the US (and the carribean for Dr Powell). I have also trained with many excellent people but I know that there is no way you would have heard of them. Big deal.

If you mention Paul Vunak, Matt Thornton, Dan insanto, Hickson Gracie, etc. All of the big names then I would know them but these guys are not particularly famous. This is not to say they are not good. I am sure that for every famous person there are a hundred people who are not famous but are just as good.


Uke,

You may not like what Veejitsu has become but JKD187 has attended classes in it and decided that he thinks it is unrealistic. He is not making it up from things he read, etc, he actually went and did it. From his description his opinion sounds pretty valid.

ABANDONED their original disciplines to study all ranges with mediocre results. Like Cam.

I love how two guys can do the same thing (Study many arts and use the best bits to create their own) and you can have such different opinions on them. In essence, I and all of the other MMA & JKD students are doing exactly what Professor Vee did. We crosstrain in styles we believe are the best in every range and develop our own style. I hope one day to be as mediocre (your words) as Professor Vee.

I guess we can't all be stealth fighters like you. LOL

Cam

[Uke]

I love how two guys can do the same thing (Study many arts and use the best bits to create their own) and you can have such different opinions on them. In essence, I and all of the other MMA & JKD students are doing exactly what Professor Vee did. We crosstrain in styles we believe are the best in every range and develop our own style. I hope one day to be as mediocre (your words) as Professor Vee.

People said the same thing about Bruce Lee and the Gracies ... until they got on the mat, that is You can think that MMA and JKD do whatever you want to, but they don't do the same what Professor Vee did. This just goes further to prove that your knowledge is predicated on articles. Just a couple of hours ago, you said you knew nothing about the Professor. And here you are now telling me what his arts are about with authority.

That's pure comedy.

[JkD187]

uke dose David James always teach at fighthouse?....because i never noticed him before untill i saw this ma documentry on discovery times channel then i noticed we shared a gym with him and others.

[cam427]

People said the same thing about Bruce Lee and the Gracies ... until they got on the mat, that is You can think that MMA and JKD do whatever you want to, but they don't do the same what Professor Vee did. This just goes further to prove that your knowledge is predicated on articles. Just a couple of hours ago, you said you knew nothing about the Professor. And here you are now telling me what his arts are about with authority.

That's pure comedy.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying with your "until they got on the mat" statement. Are you saying that the Gracies and Bruce Lee could not perform?

My only exposure to Veejitsu is from hearing JKD187 describe a class he attended and it sounds like every other poorly taught traditional martial art.

If I were in your position I would try and avoid the use of the word "mediocre".

You are pure comedy.

Cam

[JkD187]

uke as far as your comments on lee and the gracies i dont quite understand that hit the mat reference.....but yea anyway veejitsu is different from jkd you are correct, however if you are trying to imply veejitsu is superior to jkd u are mistaken (hell i never kno what ur thinking or implying so correct me if im wrong) but veejitsu is a combo of arnis and "muay thai"(all the thai i ever saw was on heavybags not on people) and some parts of grappling (which they dont spar it) and some kung fu also vee jitsu te's are used (like i said its a pre arranged pattern for learning defensive moves...still i see no sparring)however the concepts like i said for the 4th time are great.....and finally there was the 123 hit method which is u put on the pads and helmets and let someone strike you full blast(still no resistance from the other guy) while jkd is a mindset and philophsy and utilizes whatever works against a resisting opponent....so i dont understand what you are implying....but if its veejitsu is superior to jkd's concept u might wanna think again.

[mpossoff]

Hi Uke,

I train in Krav Maga.

What art or system do you train in?

Marc

[kiddbjj]

emptyness

hi emptyness

just in reply to your comments to me you must have missed the second part of my post. here it is...

"in my other life as a kung fu guy we used to do scenarios (just one exampe) where we'd have to spar 2-3 guys in the change rooms next to the training hall, so we had to get used to limited space and obstacles and how to position ourselves to get to the friggin door as quick as possible. these type of drills are terrific and a real eye opener the first time you do them, especially if you add training knives. mma techniques will work in this scenario for sure, but have you trained to allow for the variables of environment and circumstance".

make no mistake i have no illusions about beating 15 guys, in my previous training i got completely dominated by 2-3 guys. my point was more to the effect that now that i only do BJJ i'd probably fare worse in a multiple scenario simply because my reactions, mobility, and distancing would be less than when i did that scenario training. i simply meant that i needed to re-introduce that type of training just to keep learning and discovering. i'd still get flogged though!

cheers

[Tant01]

Spoon Fed

cam427:




Again, you're wrong. What Kano did is change his art into a sport. He took out the killing and brutal aspects of jujitsu so that people wouldn't fear practicing it. ......


Tant01: I'm going to use as many words to respond to what you wrote based on how much I think what you wrote was worth.

...

What a load of CRAP! You might want to study some of Kano's writings before you go off with the Kano turned it into a sport BULLSHIT...

And this is what I get for trying to be polite!

[Uke]

cam427

I am not sure I understand what you are saying with your "until they got on the mat" statement. Are you saying that the Gracies and Bruce Lee could not perform?

My only exposure to Veejitsu is from hearing JKD187 describe a class he attended and it sounds like every other poorly taught traditional martial art.

If I were in your position I would try and avoid the use of the word "mediocre".

You are pure comedy.

Cam

You have no exposure to any Vee art other than JKD187, who only has watched it from a distance. You can call any Vee art what you want, but anyone every serious martial artist knows the truth. I don't need to defend any art, but if you feel the need to critique it, go get on the mat and see for yourself. Which I know you won't do because you lack the heart to do so. That's why you're satisfied learning from internet articles and JKD187.

Good luck with that, Cam.

[Uke]

JkD187

uke as far as your comments on lee and the gracies i dont quite understand that hit the mat reference.....but yea anyway veejitsu is different from jkd you are correct, however if you are trying to imply veejitsu is superior to jkd u are mistaken (hell i never kno what ur thinking or implying so correct me if im wrong) but veejitsu is a combo of arnis and "muay thai"(all the thai i ever saw was on heavybags not on people) and some parts of grappling (which they dont spar it) and some kung fu also vee jitsu te's are used (like i said its a pre arranged pattern for learning defensive moves...still i see no sparring)however the concepts like i said for the 4th time are great.....and finally there was the 123 hit method which is u put on the pads and helmets and let someone strike you full blast(still no resistance from the other guy) while jkd is a mindset and philophsy and utilizes whatever works against a resisting opponent....so i dont understand what you are implying....but if its veejitsu is superior to jkd's concept u might wanna think again.

JKD187, you have no idea whatsoever what any Vee art is. Knowledge without experience is just data. And you'll never be afforded the the insight of wisdom without experiencing whatever it is you claim to know about.

You've only admittedly only looked in on a class, and now you've claimed to have summed up what David does. That's moronic. First, the Professor doesn't teach "veearnisjitsu" in one class setting. So if you saw people thaiboxing, its because thai striking is only one of the many parts of what David does.

I'm not discussing what is better. I don't have to. As I told you previously, typing and talking won't validate what works better. It will only lead to more conversation. You already declined getting on the mat at his school, so what is your point? Are you displaying how much knowledge you have of VeeArnisJitsu after seeing 1 or 2 classes?

Don't take my word for a thing. I've never asked anyone to. No one will say that another system is better than their own, because its a business. But on the flip side of the coin, you won't find many people willing to get on the mat with a Vee student and see who's better prepared. Lil John and Dr Moses Powell were notorious for welcoming anyone who thought that they could fight. So again, if you feel like I'm wrong, go ahead and find out as you stated you have access to the system.

FYI Before 9-11, Professor James' school was one of the largest and successful schools on the East Coast. Boasting over 600 students, most of who were adults, which is unheard of as most martial art schools make their money teaching children. I've personally met students of Inosanto and Rick Tucci who have stated the same things that I have. But unless you're willing to actually go find out if what I'm saying is true, then basically you're operating off of assumptions and conjecture.

[cam427]

You have no exposure to any Vee art other than JKD187, who only has watched it from a distance. You can call any Vee art what you want, but anyone every serious martial artist knows the truth. I don't need to defend any art, but if you feel the need to critique it, go get on the mat and see for yourself. Which I know you won't do because you lack the heart to do so. That's why you're satisfied learning from internet articles and JKD187.

Good luck with that, Cam.

I understood that JKD187 actually attended classes in it. I would consider this a very close distance.

I cannot get on the mat and see for myself as it is only practised by a small number of people in a very small geographical area. I have done many martial arts in the past and am now doing a combination of styles (MMA) which I believe to be the best I have seen so far in each range. I am not sure why you would think I lack the heart to try this one specifically. What I actually lack is the interest.

"Every serious martial artist knows the truth"... ha ha ha yes that right. we are all saying horrible things about it because we think it is so wonderful and we are afraid that people will find out that something better than what we are doing exists . Actually that would be more your style. I have only recently discovered MMA which I believed to be better than what I was doing so I changed to it while you have been studying this tired old TMA for most of your life and are now sitting on a MMA & BJJ forum telling us all how it is better than what we are doing.

Your arguments are falling apart.

Cam