Scrap vs. Martial Arts

[Eyegouge]

I've was doing some thinking today while reading some posts and I thought, these martial arts kids that dis wrestling, boxing, thai boxing, or just plain street fighting.... Have they ever been in a scrap? No martial arts, no nothing, just two people trying their absolute hardest to hurt each other. I have to say that wrestling and boxing (thai or western) simulate this much better than other martial arts.

Does the ability to just go all out, and having experience of being in the situation like a boxing match, where you get hit...over and over...or a wrestling match where you scramble and scramble, make you better prepaired for a fight than say...just BJJ or karate? I think everyone should learn how to go full out nutz on their opponent before they learn control, patience, and stalling. I think being able to turn on "apeshit" and stay in that mode for a while is a skill every fighter needs.

What's the point of waiting for someone to do something stupid if you can't survive that long?

[OmaPlata]

I've was doing some thinking today while reading some posts and I thought, these martial arts kids that dis wrestling, boxing, thai boxing, or just plain street fighting.... Have they ever been in a scrap? No martial arts, no nothing, just two people trying their absolute hardest to hurt each other. I have to say that wrestling and boxing (thai or western) simulate this much better than other martial arts.

Does the ability to just go all out, and having experience of being in the situation like a boxing match, where you get hit...over and over...or a wrestling match where you scramble and scramble, make you better prepaired for a fight than say...just BJJ or karate? I think everyone should learn how to go full out nutz on their opponent before they learn control, patience, and stalling. I think being able to turn on "apeshit" and stay in that mode for a while is a skill every fighter needs.

What's the point of waiting for someone to do something stupid if you can't survive that long?

this happens every day in BJJ classes all ove the world, some goon comes in, thinks because he is big and strong that he can whoop anyone, and he gets tapped out in minutes by a skinny white belt. Going apeshit just wastes energy and lets the other guy capitilaize on openings

[Eyegouge]

really, tell that to GNP in the UFC....it's apeshit sculpted into a martial art, did you see diego and diaz? it was a thing of beauty....GNP at it's finest....did u see the pace that was pushed? GNP is what people do to jujitsu instinctivly.

[Sagacious Lu]

this happens every day in BJJ classes all ove the world, some goon comes in, thinks because he is big and strong that he can whoop anyone, and he gets tapped out in minutes by a skinny white belt. Going apeshit just wastes energy and lets the other guy capitilaize on openings

Exactly, and the same thing happens on wrestling teams- some one comes in and thinks they're something special because they're big, strong and crazy. Then they do something crazy and get schooled by someone who stays calm and knows what they're doing, even if that person is much smaller. I'm sure it's the same story in a boxing gym. If you go "apeshit" on a good boxer half your size and throw a bunch of wild punches he'll very calmly beat you senseless. Martial arts (almost all of them) are no different if they are taught in a good school that emphasizes the combative side of the training in which they practice full contact sparring.

[blitz]

Well its all about being calm at the right time or being agressive at the right time. Both can work if you use them at the right time ;p thats my opinion.

[Blue Wave Gym]

yea and I'll go you guys one better

Ever notice that even the best boxers and kickboxers often get koed in mma by punches by people who can't punch for shit. Why? because we learn to defend against/throw punches from normal lines ie hooks in close and straight punches far away but unskilled brawlers throw hooks from the range we normally throw straight punches from,we're used to fighting other guys with skills, no unorthadox/wierdo/regular people.The only styles we're used to is boxer v.s. puncher or infighter v.s. outfighter.Look at many mma fights and you'll see what I mean the unskilled guy just rushes you and unloads a sloopy punc and ko's you.

[Eyegouge]

thank you, god....exactly what blitz said is what i'm trying to say. OK, this is it, you have to know how to be extremly agressive. TKD, aikido, BJJ, karate, and styles like thoes teach you to be fast or relaxed, to set it up or to let them do something stupid. Love to see you set something up while getting punched/elbowed in the face or slammed on your head on concrete. I HAVE to say boxing and westling styles prepair you to fight in a much more physically agressive situation. I think martial artists should learn how to be agressive and physical before learning how to be calm, controlled, and strategic.

[JkD187]

very good points by gouge and blitz... i just wanna add something to that point.The reason that boxing or muay thai, wrestling or bjj etc etc prepare you for fights is the simple fact that you really fight.Many traditional martial artists along with jkd and self defense guys pracitice katas or one and two step sparring,dead patterns which is fine if your training for something other then self defense.When training for self defense or competition you must spar full contact with good equipment on to ensure no one gets hurt.You can only get the timing,relaxation and explosiveness from sparring,nothng else will get you that not a certain art or system but only through resistance timing energy and motion.Any martial art can be effective its just that 95% of what is taught in the martial arts world is bs that woulnt even work on a corpse.Tkd or karate can be just as effective as muay thai or boxing as long as you have years of training with lots of full cntact sparring.In short if you do not spar full contact then the skills you are learning woulnt work when shit hits the fan.

[BoarSpear]

In short if you do not spar full contact then the skills you are learning woulnt work when shit hits the fan.

anything you can "spar full contact" isnt a good idea for self defense...or more specifically any technique you can land at 110% as many like to claim they train...and leave a non hospitalized opponent isnt my idea of self defense.

Is sparring a good tool? yes. is it like self defense? No. Does sparring in the ring teach self defense? No. does it teach attributes that a fighter needs? Hell yes.
Does the ring teach bad habits and things that can get you killed in the street? yes. Sparring and ring work are one part of the equation. Can you learn to fight without getting hit? No. TMA's when properly trained are not a toy. However 99% of TMA's are taught like a game without real resistance. Sport arts on the other hand go full out with techniques that are deemed safe for competition. Its also true that the Tma teach ALOT of things that can get you killed as well. A little of both is a good balance...too much of either is going to create a weakness in self defense ability while making you better at the fun part you specialized in because it was so much fun.

sparring is great for learning to see openings, learning to weather the storm so to speak is also great...you learn when to be patient and when to turn up the heat...

[Eyegouge]

Where is TKD kid, i want his opinion.... n jubaji....

[Sensei Saki]

Where TKD kid i want his opinion is hard to find.


Try saying that with more or less context.
My brain pattern set does not have a response for that.
Not many people express themselves that way.

[Eyegouge]

I know sensei, i love you too...jubaji, get in here....

[JkD187]

good points as well boar....however i have just one question and id like your opinion on the matter.When it comes to strikes to the groin...brainstem...eyes...throat etc etc how do you train these techniques.

[Eyegouge]

boar hangs his dead foes up with ropes from the trees in his backyard, then he punches and kicks them and trains his deadly strikes on them. After they turn into mush (usually after only 4 hits by boar...yeah he's that good) he burries them under his ganja plants to fertalize them. There is usually a good supply of bad guys too because boar walks the streets of the south side of chicago, detriot michigan, compton, and most deadly of all...daytona florida...in these places he gets in knife fights and gun battles nightly....yeah...watch out ya'll he does this shit for fun.....

boar.... u rock my socks....

[GonzoStyles]

going apeshit has its pros and cons, a good high outside guard (muay Thai) will let you hold off almost any street slugger as they are usually just swinging for the fences headhunting. as far as GNP id like to see a street fighter try to GNP anyone with sufficient grappling mat time, the examples are too many remember Joyce Gracie versus Kimo? yeah Joyce was gassed and Kimo and his dumbass trainer paraded around the ring, but who tapped out?
being CCC (calm cool and collected) under fire is, IMO, far more important that just turning on the aggro you have inside cause your momma didn't give you enough tit as a small child. being someone who transitioned from streetfighting into martial arts I have seen people try and bring the apeshit mode into the ring and seen people being cold as ice in the street, and aside from punchers luck the guy who can keep a cool head can see more, react faster and have more gas in the tank if it goes beyond 3 minutes. but anyways thats just my $.02