Is judo highly effective?

[kiddbjj]

i dunno, i think that BJJ is still the better of all the mainstream grappling arts simply because you aren't limited in the techniques you can apply to the degree that you are in other grapple arts eg:
- Greco - no subs and all upper body takedowns
- freestyle - no subs
- judo - nice throws and all but throws are much harder to learn that shoots and takedowns. Plus no leg locks and i think (may be wrong) no shoulder locks, only elbow locks and chokes
- shuai jiao - same as judo

whislt you may borrow stuff from each of the above styles its really only the BJJ format that permits the widest variety of technique.

Of course that doesn;t mean that BJJ guys are better at throws than Judo for example, but the opportunity exists for it to be trained and improved. Shoots and takedowns just seem to work easier. Also depends whether you want to stay on your feet of course

[blanker]

i dunno, i think that BJJ is still the better of all the mainstream grappling arts simply because you aren't limited in the techniques you can apply to the degree that you are in other grapple arts eg:
- Greco - no subs and all upper body takedowns
- freestyle - no subs
- judo - nice throws and all but throws are much harder to learn that shoots and takedowns. Plus no leg locks and i think (may be wrong) no shoulder locks, only elbow locks and chokes
- shuai jiao - same as judo

whislt you may borrow stuff from each of the above styles its really only the BJJ format that permits the widest variety of technique.

Of course that doesn;t mean that BJJ guys are better at throws than Judo for example, but the opportunity exists for it to be trained and improved. Shoots and takedowns just seem to work easier. Also depends whether you want to stay on your feet of course

bjj is newaza (judo groundfighting) although there is more enthisis on position in bjj then judo which has a focus on locking in a sub more or less as soon as you hit the deck. infact the triangle choke was added to bjj as one school of bjj i think the carlson gracie guys where using a guard pass where you put one hand through the legs and one under the legs and a student from another school was reading a judo book and came across the triangle and started using it as a counter or so the story goes anyway.

the throws in judo are harder but thay are designed to pin an oponent on his head and break his neck origenally in classoc ju jitsu and i have found alot of judo throws work well against wrestling moves like inner reaps work well against the single leg takedown and table throws and the body drop is a good counter against being clinched when your oponent is driving into you infact pretty much all wrestling takedowns are in judo and vice versa.

the judo that dosnt have alot of ground work is compition judo rather then judo the art which has more or less the same ground work as bjj and bjj at the higher belt levels have all the judo throws in there judos focus is on throws and bjj is on ground grappling.

[Tant01]

No sambo?

i dunno, i think that BJJ is still the better of all the mainstream grappling arts simply because you aren't limited in the techniques you can apply to the degree that you are in other grapple arts eg:
- Greco - no subs and all upper body takedowns
- freestyle - no subs
- judo - nice throws and all but throws are much harder to learn that shoots and takedowns. Plus no leg locks and i think (may be wrong) no shoulder locks, only elbow locks and chokes
- shuai jiao - same as judo

whislt you may borrow stuff from each of the above styles its really only the BJJ format that permits the widest variety of technique.

Of course that doesn;t mean that BJJ guys are better at throws than Judo for example, but the opportunity exists for it to be trained and improved. Shoots and takedowns just seem to work easier. Also depends whether you want to stay on your feet of course

"Mainstream" tends to be localized to a particular geography.

I doubt if there is a more popular style than GJJ/BJJ but LOTS of art styles have adopted the fundamental submission techniques found in "Brazilian" jiu-jitsu...

I tend to think your opinion of judo and BJJ is a bit slanted or biased but fairly typical.

While MANY techniques are not permitted in randori, Judo includes all manner of joint locks, joint destruction and strangulation.

The only limitation to Judo techniques is the mind of the judo player.

[Tant01]

...
I tend to think your opinion of judo and BJJ is a bit slanted or biased but fairly typical.

...

Of course the same could certainly be said for MY opinion...

[JadeDragon]

Is judo HIHGLY effective? What about its groundwork? Is it good?

I don't know much about Judo but from what I've seen I'd have to say no. The reason is it appears it would hurt you just as bad as your opponent if you did judo techniques on concrete or with out mats. So for practical/real purposes I'd say no.

[Tant01]

Men of few words...

I don't know much about Judo but from what I've seen I'd have to say no. The reason is it appears it would hurt you just as bad as your opponent if you did judo techniques on concrete or with out mats. So for practical/real purposes I'd say no.

That's too bad JD. In my experience there is little that is more effective than smashing someone into a planet.

[JadeDragon]

That's too bad JD. In my experience there is little that is more effective than smashing someone into a planet.

I agree but of the judo that I've seen both end up on the ground, landing hard.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

I agree but of the judo that I've seen both end up on the ground, landing hard.

There are a lot of problems with judo competition rules, mostly stemming from the emphasis put on the ippon, which is emphasized to make the matches more spectator friendly. The first problem is that guys let their break-fall form go out the window and do ludicrous stuff to avoid landing on their back. That leads to refs feeling they need to loosen the criteria for ippon (speed, technique, force, and putting the opponent "largely on the back"). When those criteria are loosened, guys just go all out for the ippon since they don't have to continue into the ground game. That's where you get the problem you're mentioning.

On the effectiveness point, a couple people have said you can throw someone on their head if you want to. Actually, you will throw someone on their head executing a throw exactly as you do in class. That's why you learn ukemi first.

As for standing grappling vs. ground grappling, i don't see how it's even controversial. If i like to put guys on the ground, i should know how to finish there. If the ground game is my favorite, i'd better know how to put guys there. My first judo instructor alternated standing and ground every other day. 50/50 makes the most sense to me.

[JadeDragon]

As for standing grappling vs. ground grappling, i don't see how it's even controversial. If i like to put guys on the ground, i should know how to finish there. If the ground game is my favorite, i'd better know how to put guys there. My first judo instructor alternated standing and ground every other day. 50/50 makes the most sense to me.

Makes sense to me, I agree.

[jubaji]

I agree but of the judo that I've seen both end up on the ground, landing hard.

You are one wussy little fire chief, aren't you?

[mellow]

I agree but of the judo that I've seen both end up on the ground, landing hard.

That sometimes happens but it's not planned unless it's sutemi waza.

[mellow]

There are a lot of problems with judo competition rules, mostly stemming from the emphasis put on the ippon, which is emphasized to make the matches more spectator friendly. The first problem is that guys let their break-fall form go out the window and do ludicrous stuff to avoid landing on their back. That leads to refs feeling they need to loosen the criteria for ippon (speed, technique, force, and putting the opponent "largely on the back"). When those criteria are loosened, guys just go all out for the ippon since they don't have to continue into the ground game. That's where you get the problem you're mentioning.

On the effectiveness point, a couple people have said you can throw someone on their head if you want to. Actually, you will throw someone on their head executing a throw exactly as you do in class. That's why you learn ukemi first.

As for standing grappling vs. ground grappling, i don't see how it's even controversial. If i like to put guys on the ground, i should know how to finish there. If the ground game is my favorite, i'd better know how to put guys there. My first judo instructor alternated standing and ground every other day. 50/50 makes the most sense to me.

I think it's hard to make a generalization here. From what I've seen many commercial schools go for flashy techniques like the big throw while the not-for-profit clubs are a bit more well rounded.

The club I trained with (at a university) they did alot of ne waza. One of their favorite stategies is to throw (or allow to be thrown) in yuko and then beat the opponent in groundwork. Back then they wouldn't stand you back up unless no progress on the ground was being made. Maybe things have changed.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Isn't it true, that technically speaking Judo has striking, and it has self-defense applications? My original Kodokan judo book seems to indicate that.

The Judo Kata does involve some striking and striking defense but to be honest it's pretty weak .

I agree but of the judo that I've seen both end up on the ground, landing hard.

That's because in competition there's such a big emphasis on ippons that it forces players to over-throw, throwing themselves in the process. For self defense application, that wouldn't happen of course, all throws would be modified to land the opponent either on his head or flat on his back. Even if you were to throw yourself as well on concrete, you're landing on him and he's landing on the concrete so overall, you have a pretty cushioned landing .

[kiddbjj]

whilst the previous posts all have merit i fail to see how you can expect to throw someone on their head in an self defence situation when you never do it in class...the mechanics will just not be ingrained in you.

And yes judo has many great and nasty techniques but as has been stated already, if the competition phase does not permit these techniques then it is unlikely that people will train them to be reflex. Saying that a judo guy is going to drop someone on their head is like saying a TKD person is going to drop someone with a left hook or a boxer is going to go for a flying armbar...they don't train to do it in their respective sport so why would they do it instinctively on the street.

I must admit I do like the judo approach to groundwork eg. get it done QUICK. In BJJ its easy to get into the habit of spending ages on the floor and not really achieving much...not good for self defence but it does help you pick your moment.

I think judo is awesome but that the rules of the comp have been bastardised for the audience.

[blanker]

whilst the previous posts all have merit i fail to see how you can expect to throw someone on their head in an self defence situation when you never do it in class...the mechanics will just not be ingrained in you.

And yes judo has many great and nasty techniques but as has been stated already, if the competition phase does not permit these techniques then it is unlikely that people will train them to be reflex. Saying that a judo guy is going to drop someone on their head is like saying a TKD person is going to drop someone with a left hook or a boxer is going to go for a flying armbar...they don't train to do it in their respective sport so why would they do it instinctively on the street.

I must admit I do like the judo approach to groundwork eg. get it done QUICK. In BJJ its easy to get into the habit of spending ages on the floor and not really achieving much...not good for self defence but it does help you pick your moment.

I think judo is awesome but that the rules of the comp have been bastardised for the audience.

i agree with alot of what you say from a self defence point of view but what i would not agree with is the throwing on the head thing, your premis is wrong judoka's dont train to throw people on there back thay train to control the throw, i have trained with olympic level judoka's in the past and thay can make you land however and were ever thay like, once thay get a grip on you its pretty much fight over. saying that thay cant throw people on there heads because thay dont train to do so is like saying greco guys cant pin you on your head from a suplex because thay dont train to and mma has proved thay can in many matches.