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**Jiu Jitsu Monk** · 12-08-2005, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Eric Daniel

Are the Modern martial arts any more effective or better than traditional arts? What is your opinion?

There are NO modern martial arts, they are mouse traps.

I have heard many times that modern martial arts are better than traditional martial arts for living in todays violent world. However, I disagree with this because ancient Martial arts like karate and jujutsu were made for combat on the battlefield. I have heard many times that non-traditional martial arts are better than traditional martial arts for living in todays violent world. I do not really agree with this statement because traditional arts like karate were made for combat many years ago and I have read that most non-traditional arts have some kind of traditional martial art background. Does any one agree/disagree with either of these statements?
I don't think one martial art is better than another one either. I have a question that I have had trouble with for a couple weeks since I posted this topic:

How is a modern martial art determind and a traditional martial art determind, and how are they different? Are they different?
What are your opinions??

Sincerely, Eric Daniel

My take on it is that a traditional martial art is un-modified fromit's original form. i.e Shotokan Karate, Japanese Ju Jitsu, Shaolin Kung Fu. A modern Martial art is one that has been forward developed from it's orginal form. BJJ, JKD. However, I guess by using this defanition you could say that Akido and Judo are therefore modern martial arts which most of us would probably consider traditional ones.....hmmm!

I think the modern martial arts are more applicable for today becasue we no longer wear Samuri armour or farm with rice flails etc. Therefore, the techniques developed in the "so called" modern martial arts have in mind that we ware jeans and t shirts, do not carry swords and most of us don't farm any longer. And I guess there is the issue that it is not acceptable to break someones neck in most cases, any longer!!

That is not to say that the traditional martial arts are useless or do not have techniques that will work in toadys world. It's just that the more modern ones have techniques that were born or developed of this time.

Lastley, I would not agree with the comment that we live in a more violent world toady. I think it is just a different kind of violance.

Just my thoughts

**kooky** · 12-08-2005, 12:52 PM

Modern,ancient,traditional,reality based....a horse by any other colour....it's more about HOW YOU TRAIN.

**Balo** · 12-12-2005, 10:38 AM

In my opinion the term 'traditional martial arts' refers as much to the way of teaching, ie forms, 1 step sparring, kata drill etc, as the style itself.

For effective self defence or mma, this way of training is not adequate and some 'modern' martial arts provide better preparation for a real encounter. They usually have greater emhasis on full contact sparring and conditioning.(However most of the modern styles are not in fact new art, and are infact going back to the ways the traditional arts use to be trained in).

Most traditional arts today are not taught in the same way as how they were taught in the 70-80s. In those days you would only find tough guys in gyms who would knock each others heads off in training. Black belts ment something.
Then came the leisure centre training hall, instructors wanting to create their own little empires, grading a student who doesnot like rough training, teaching kids who's mothers didnot want beaten up in training and S***t instructor who had never been in a real fight, but had their own fighting theories anyway.

But don't be fooled that all modern arts will beat traditional Styles automatically. There are schools out there how teach how martial arts should be taught. There are also alot of poor modern style instructors popping up everywhere stating they are experts in the most popular style of the day, with years of experience!. Before you know it you will all be saying the modern styles are S***t compared to traditional style, as the same rot will happen again.

The only way to keep a style focussed is by competition. The more realistic the competition rules the better and purer the style will remain.
Martial arts is about fighting after all.

**aseepish** · 12-12-2005, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by kooky

Modern,ancient,traditional,reality based....a horse by any other colour....it's more about HOW YOU TRAIN.

Exactly. A punch is a punch; a kick is a kick. There is no such thing as a superior style, but there ARE superior training methods.

Judo's randori, BJJ's sparring, MT pad work and sparring, JKD/MMA integration of techniques... these are all superior training methods.

**danfaggella** · 12-12-2005, 02:41 PM

I think it really is how you train. Also, keeping an open mind and not fitting into the pidgeon hole created 2000 years ago is nice as well, martial artists have to adapt and use what works when it works.

In my oppinion, the "traditional" MAs are the ones where you do kata/forms and learn how to gouge eyes/kick nuts/remove tendons/defend yourself. In sportive modern MAs you spar with gloves and submission grapple. Surely dirty self-defence moves cant be integrated well into such training, but most sportive places dont even get into such things, which to me is a shame to those who want to be martial artist and may not only want to be in sub grappling or mma competition. however, the way the modern MA people learn and train seems more fun and logical then learning how to perform a perfect kata. I think traditional training is not practical. I am currently learning BJJ/MT and Kung Fu. Bothj places train totally differently.

in my MODERN "sportive" MA place, we learn a new move or 2 or 3 or 4, then we practice it on the mat, then we submission grapple. Then we jump some rope and get into Muay Thai, where we learn to kick propperly on a bag or pad with a partner and sometimes to some pad/shield work, like combos and stuff, learning how to kick propperly.

in my TRADITIONAL "self-defence" MA place, we open up with 18 traditional exercises, then we do 5 beasts at play (i dont know all of 5 beast yet....). Then, we learn about a move and relate it to a form or a few forms. We drill that technique (IE: guy punches with a right cross, such-and-such a block, such-and-such a step, such-and-such an attack/trip, we mix it up and see different things that can be done with the better possition attained with the move, and we just mess aroudn with it making sure our blocks are right and our footwork is perfect. Then the guys spar. They have no padding or mouthpieces or anything, they just go at it. Mind you this is outside all year so its usually muddy or snow out, but there is grass as well, it changes every week. They do techniques hard enough to work and feel effect but not enough to seriosuly hamr anyone. People always get bloody but nobody ends up going to the hospital. Its much different form kickboxing because there are a lot of trips and hand possitions that are used in many ways, its interesting. I don't know if that kind of sparring is more effective for street preparation then glove/mouthpiece MMA kinda stuff.

**Eyegouge** · 12-12-2005, 04:10 PM

A punch is a punch eh? Well punching someone in the liver and punching someone in the throat are two distinctly differnt things. And as such they come from completly differnt styles.

The main difference between ancient arts and today's arts, yes, is training. The technique of teaching and passing down knowledge has been refined so no longer do you learn kata's, you spar with a partner under a teacher's guidence and are taught moves as you progress.

Teaching styles are the main difference between acient martial arts and modern martial arts.

But do not forget that our arts are constantly changing and advancing. There are choices now for students to make. You yourself must decide what path you want to take. Grappling, striking, or GNP.

I've got to say it's like choosing to be a jedi, join the darkside, or use both.

**shaolin-warrior** · 12-12-2005, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Eyegouge

A punch is a punch eh? Well punching someone in the liver and punching someone in the throat are two distinctly differnt things. And as such they come from completly differnt styles.

The main difference between ancient arts and today's arts, yes, is training. The technique of teaching and passing down knowledge has been refined so no longer do you learn kata's, you spar with a partner under a teacher's guidence and are taught moves as you progress.

Teaching styles are the main difference between acient martial arts and modern martial arts.

But do not forget that our arts are constantly changing and advancing. There are choices now for students to make. You yourself must decide what path you want to take. Grappling, striking, or GNP.

I've got to say it's like choosing to be a jedi, join the darkside, or use both.

great post!! couldn't agree more

**danfaggella** · 12-12-2005, 10:56 PM

By "our styles" do you mean TMA?

I don't see too much evolution in TMA myself, though SanShou is surely a move in that direction.

**tkd_person89** · 12-12-2005, 11:44 PM

TMA is just as good as Modern MA. I don't understand the anti-kata hype. I love kata. And secondly, people claim we live in a more dangerous world. We do. But I don't think TMA of ModernMA will make the difference between escaping a mugging with a guy with a gun and getting shot in the face!

**Sensei Saki** · 12-12-2005, 11:44 PM

I think TMA is a lot of things.
Oh you don't understand? Perhaps I can explain it to you better. Which part are you confused about?You love kata. What do you like about kata so much?Humans are not always infallible.Really.And.
And why not?

**tkd_person89** · 12-12-2005, 11:51 PM

How about you write in coherent sentences with proper grammar?

Make some useful posts for a change, Sensei Dumbass.

**BoarSpear** · 12-12-2005, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by tkd_person89

How about you write in coherent sentences with proper grammar?

Make some useful posts for a change, Sensei Dumbass.

you do realize youre bitching at a computer about grammar dont you?

**tkd_person89** · 12-13-2005, 12:06 AM

lol.. it's just that it's really annoying to read that guy's posts. this isn't AIM...

**jubaji** · 12-13-2005, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by tkd_person89

lol.. it's just that it's really annoying to read that guy's posts. this isn't AIM...

No, the point is that its not a "guy" at all.

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