BJJ, OK, or WCKF

[Forbidden Fury]

Afghanistan 2001 - The Taliban government harbored Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaeda terrorist group, responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.
...
Georgie porgie dupes the slack jawed moronic american masses in to believing that Saddam Hussein was somehow linked to the Sept 11th attacks.

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I can't help myself any longer. First off, I'm an United Stater (technically speaking, anyone from north, central, or south america can claim to be american, not just U.S. citizens). And I'm extremely disappointed with this country. Its severely lacking in a lot of areas. So please don't think we're all as arrogent as the majority.

Secondly, it is a little known fact, but is indeed a fact if you bother to look it up, that the United States trained Laden to BE a terrorist. Oh yes, we trained him to do exactly what he's doing. This information was released some time ago under the Freedom of Information Act. He was trained in the U.S., for these types of things. When he started using his training in ways that the U.S. did not support, they cut him off. But you see, its only terrorism if someone aside from us do it It's also a fact that we did something very similar to Laden, as in we destroyed buildings when not in a war type conflict. While I disagree with his methods, and they basically defeat his purpose, at least some of his reasoning makes sense. He just did what we did. When we did it, it was ok. When he did it, it was terrorism.

Thirdly, in the beginning of this so called "war," the Bush administration itself claimed that Iraq had no connection to 9/11. It then changed its tune. Why? Who knows. Maybe they finally realized that their invisible weapons of mass destruction crap was seen through, so they had to use another high-emotion ploy to get support.

Years ago, during the Cold War, people used to throw around the word "communist" every time someone did something that was in the minority opinion and was disliked. Using the word, even though the topic may have had absolutely nothing to do with it, caused a high emotional reaction and made people rear away from said minority opinion. It's well-known that this time was basically nothing but a witch hunt. Well, the exact same thing is happening now. If people don't like something, they now use the word "terrorist." Did you know that earlier this year a number of colleges had a Kiss-In, which was a public display of gay kisses in order to demonstrate against the U.S. military's "dont ask, dont tell" policy? The Pentagon has claimed that these Kiss-Ins constitute terrorist acts, and any pro-diversity/acceptance type of organization now can be called a possible terrorist organization and can get spied on. Which is all complete crap. But it goes to show that nothing has really changed over the years.

Much of the U.S. believes that might makes right. The egostical, power-hungry, and self-centered beliefs of the majority (though I don't think its by a large majority), think that the U.S. should be able to do whatever they hell they want. And much of the world hates them for it. Might does NOT make right. And refusing to even try to see something from someone else's point of view is narrowminded to the extreme.

[aseepish]

Korea

Korean war - The american government decides to end “meat grinder” war in which they are losing badly. They agree to a truce and eventually sign an armistice agreement with North Koreans and Chinese on July 27, 1953. Over 54000 american soldiers dead.

This is our history too. "Canada sent over 25,000 troops to fight in Korea. There were 1,558 Canadian casualties including 516 dead. Korea has often been described as "The Forgotten War" because most Canadians are not as familiar with the history of the war as the Canadian contributions in the two world wars. Canada is a signatory to the original 1953 armistice, which means Canada could be required to defend South Korea in the future if needed." http://www.answers.com/topic/military-history-of-canada

The United Nations forces in Korea were not losing badly. The war was in a state of stalemate. Compare the figure of 54000 American soldiers dead with the estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 dead or missing Chinese. http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm#Ko

The Truman (and later Eisenhower) administration deserves a lot of respect for restraining MacArthur, keeping the war limited, and avoiding World War Three.

Bash the Americans all you want (it's fun!), but at least get your history right.

[aseepish]

you've never fought a war.

For Canadians: World War One 1914-1918 World War Two 1939-1945
For Americans: World War One 1917-1918 World War Two 1941-1945

World War One: "By the end of the war, Canada lost about the same number of people as the United States did. For a nation of eight million people Canada's war effort was remarkable. A total of 619,636 men and women served in the Canadian forces in the First World War, and of these 66,655 gave their lives and another 172,950 were wounded. Nearly one of every ten Canadians who fought in the war did not return."

World War Two: "Of a population just over 11 million more than one and a half million Canadians and Newfoundlanders served in the Second World War. Of these more than 45,000 gave their lives, and another 55,000 were wounded."

Korea: (see the above post)

More recently: " Over 125,000 Canadians have served in more than 50 peacekeeping missions since 1949. 116 of them were killed. Some of the most important missions include the long stay in Cyprus, observation missions in the Sinai and Golan Heights and the NATO mission in Bosnia. The 1993 Canadian response to Operation Medak pocket in Bosnia was the largest battle fought by Canadian forces since the Korean War."

Iraq(1991) and Afghanistan:Canada sent a CF-18 squadron and field hospitals to the Gulf in 1991. "Canada also joined a U.S. coalition in the 2001 Attack on Afghanistan... Canada sent special forces and ground troops to the conflict. Four Canadians were killed in a friendly fire incident when an American plane bombed a group of Canadian soldiers. After the war, Canada formed an important part of the NATO-led peacekeeping force."

Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/military-history-of-canada

[bOoRadley]

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I can't help myself any longer. First off, I'm an United Stater (technically speaking, anyone from north, central, or south america can claim to be american, not just U.S. citizens). And I'm extremely disappointed with this country. Its severely lacking in a lot of areas. So please don't think we're all as arrogant as the majority.

When I read statements like this and along with the rest of this post it reminds me that half, if not more, of the American people are decent, intelligent individuals who are thoroughly disgusted with the actions of their government and the attitudes of many of their fellow citizens. As much as it enrages me and others around the world to witness the hypocrisy and the atrocities committed by your government it must pale in comparison to how it must feel to be an American and to watch the slippery slope your country is heading down.

No country is perfect, no government infallible, but for crying out loud people you're being lied to...your media is told in no uncertain terms what it can and cannot report. Over 2000 American families had an empty spot at the dinner table this Christmas because their sons or daughters lives were wasted over oil. Your military is forced to drop bombs on women and children with out just cause. You're government has decided that they can spy on you without a warrant. Wake up, you're not free...you're not free to travel the world in peace because the world views you as evil...you're liberty on your own soil is being stripped under the ruse of "the war on terror"...you're not free to pick up a newspaper and read opinions that your government feels are dangerous or to see pictures of the dead and wounded Americans coming back from Iraq...and do you know why? Because the government doesn't want another Vietnam on it's hands where the American people stand up and say "Phuck this" and demand a stop to it.

And if you want to be so naive to think that none of this matters because you don't ever plan to travel or because you have the right colour of skin than you really are foolish. Your government has removed the tax free status of churches who have spoken out against them, they have spied on and implemented smear campaigns against peace activists, they have leaked the identities of CIA operatives to silence them or those close to them. I could be considered a "terrorist threat" just for posting this and if I lived south of the boarder my telephone, internet, mail, etc could all be monitored by tomorrow...without a warrant.

The most important reason why you should care is because ultimately the people who end up suffering are not the wealthy, powerful politically connected who are responsible for these evil decisions. It's Joe Blow American who made it to work by 9 o'clock or managed to catch his flight so that he could get home to see his kids but ended up flying into the side of a fucking building because a bunch of wackos what your country to stop it's rape an pillaging of the world...

Think about it...take off the blinders and stop being sheep. Open your eyes and your minds.

[eXcessiveForce]

You have an interesting viewpoint.

I do not share it but it is interesting none the less


We are no where near vietnam. If you think the war was only for oil you view is much more myopic. It's about control. it's about elimiating threats long before they are a threat. it's about changing the views of people all over the world.

All of the things being said of iraq are the same as those said about the U.S. in germany in world war II.

Iraq helped deal with other countries politcially. Iran, North Korea, Lybia, pakistan, syria. The impact of the war may have a greater impact than what actually happens in Iraq. But if iraq does become a safe zone of democracy in that area of the world. It could lead to greater stability as a whole over time

We hear all the time people are dying in the media. 2k for an entire war is actually quite good as far as statistics go. It is too bad that anyone must lose their life, however when you compare to 50K in vietnam, and no tangible results, vs. iraq, who now has a new government, A sympathetic Kurdish ally, and a great place to keep watch on the rest of the area.

sometimes the real reasons for things aren't enough to convince people to do it.

even with our government moving to limit freedoms, we are still much more free than most parts of the world.

Personally I think we should just stop foreign aid, to any country that has no significance to us. We should continue to secure resources that we will need and protect those we have.

We should not forgive any more debt and pay down our debt. Then the entire world would live in poverty and the US would be sitting pretty.

Seeing that the US. is one of the only major countries to not have defaulted on their debt.

[gabbah]

it's about elimiating threats long before they are a threat. it's about changing the views of people all over the world.

Please don't tell me you honestly believe that.
Sure, Bush will "change the view" of people all over the world if they have enough oil...

With great power comes great responsability. It seems USA forgot about that last part. But to be fair, perhaps most countries with that much power would. After all, who can stop you?

[jubaji]

As much as it enrages me and others around the world to witness the hypocrisy and the atrocities committed by your government it must pale in comparison to how it must feel to be an American and to watch the slippery slope your country is heading down.

...................? You still here? I thought I told you to go fetch some timber. Stop bothering your betters boy and do as you are told. (you know you will!)

[jubaji]

With great power comes great responsability.

And who would know that better than the mighty Swedes!

[gabbah]

And who would know that better than the mighty Swedes!

Well, USA SHOULD know that better. I think everyone knows that?

[bOoRadley]

Personally I think we should just stop foreign aid, to any country that has no significance to us. We should continue to secure resources that we will need and protect those we have.

This is exactly the self absorbed, greedy, ignorant attitude that makes the rest of the world view the inhabitants of the USA as evil, degenerate, imbeciles. Do you really have no feelings of compassion or empathy for anyone else in the world? Do you really believe that your country should only extend assistance to countries if it benefits americans in one way or another? Can human beings actually be this selfish? This arrogant? This moronic?

Your country is weak. Mexicans, and whoever else chooses to, stroll across your border at will. Your military is spread so thin they can't even properly assist your own citizens in the event of a natural disaster. Your cities are constantly one racist incident away from being looted and burned to the ground. Over 50% of your high school graduates cannot read above a grade 3 level. Your general population is so stupid that when asked why they think terrorists attack the USA their answer is "Cause they hate our freedom!". You people chose to re-elect a wacko war mongering religious laughingstock who can barely string together a coherent sentence instead of a dignified decorated war hero. And the most ridiculous, hilarious, side splittingly funny thing of all is that you still believe that your racist, poverty stricken, crime infested country is the best in the world. How you people say that shit with a straight face is mystery.


You people are trash...you deserve everything you get

[eXcessiveForce]

hmmm and your country supported the war as well. wonder what that says for you all.

why should we give anything to people who hate us? We give more than any other country and yet are dispised. so screw them. My country has no money of it's own. It has my money. Why give it to some ingrate that won't even say thank you. How about we just take care of our own people and the rest of the countries can take care of theirs.

I won't even go into the reasons for some of the other things you said.

It is not our countries job to handle the worlds problems. That is what the UN is supposed to do. of which we pay 80% of the bill. Until the rest of the world starts paying an equal portion why should be care about their views?

Canada and mexico benefit from the US military, means you all don't really have to worry about one for yourselves and that is why you have a token military. Hell Mexico only exists because the US did not want it. They surrendered to the US and the US only took a very small piece.

It's also easier to Take canadian resources rather than take from our own vast resources in Alaska.

[bOoRadley]

Your country is weak...so weak that a handful of men with box cutters brought it to it's knees.

You're a joke.

[BoarSpear]

It is not our countries job to handle the worlds problems. That is what the UN is supposed to do. of which we pay 80% of the bill. Until the rest of the world starts paying an equal portion why should be care about their views?

Hey maybe we should cut the UN off then eh?

If we finance 80% of their organization and they are anti gun (which is in direct conflict with our constitution) and didnt support us in Iraq.

Exactly what is it they do that justifies our footing their bills?

[eXcessiveForce]

Face it canada is simply our supply store. Your freedom is a the only joke. When it suits us we will take everything you have. You will be busy giving up to worry about our country.



Yeah I think we should pull out of the UN. Tell them to move their headquarters out of our country and deport the bastards. We did withhold our UN dues for awhile and it damn near caused the UN to collapse.


Also funny how we help the world by providing money and then all the european countries promise aid, then never deliver.

[BoarSpear]

Yeah I think we should pull out of the UN. Tell them to move their headquarters out of our country and deport the bastards. We did withhold our UN dues for awhile and it damn near caused the UN to collapse.


Also funny how we help the world by providing money and then all the european countries promise aid, then never deliver.

Amen we should BOOT the UN to IRAQ...let them set up HQ there

and i gotta agree the EU talk a good game but the checkbook never seems to get pulled out.