WTF was Royler doing in this fight?

[EmptyneSs]

bitter old man keeps repeating the same shit over and over.

[Mako Victim]

so you still cant explain the butt scoot huh? Its easier to hate me for pointing out the obvious...GJJ has specialized itself right out of reality...even for the ring.

just keep on telling yourself Royler had better options..he didnt have to butt scoot around...he just didnt care how stupid and ineffectual it was...it wasnt like it was an important fight.

BTW sorry if this "old guy' thinks that was the funniest and yet most pathetic freakin thing he had ever seen...it reminded me of the fight scene from Troy when orlando blooms character (the little wuss) wouldnt fight and was crawling around on all fours because thats all he had.

You seem to forget that Royler wasn't just fighting anyone, he was fighting Sakuraba.. The man who beat 4 gracies, Sak has awsome takedown defence, even Royce had alot of trouble taking him down, plus he had a 40 pound weight advantage on Royler. There's no way Royler could take Sak standing up so why would Sak wanna go into his gaurd??

And it's really stupid for you to say that UFC's better then Pride just because of one pride fight you've seen.. Sometimes fighter's just have shitty days..

And I would assume the reason for the butt scoot is to either try to kick Sak or try to get him to come in his gaurd, that simple..

[gabbah]

Boarspear, what is it that you don't understand?
I have seen all of pride and UFC, and "butt scooting" does happen from time to time, not only by a gracie.
It happens when one of the guy feels he can't compete with his opponent standing up, and that he knows he will never be able to take him down. Instead he insists on letting his opponent try to finish him off on the ground, where he can catch him in a submission.
But since his opponent knows this as well, he's happy to stay up and kick his legs, and wait for the ref to stand them up again.
They're both trying to win a MATCH, not defend them selves on the street. So they use the strategy they think is best for them. So some fights will be boring like that one.

If it was on the street, Royler could just stand up and run I guess. GJJ is not primarily for attack, it's for defence, isn't it? If you opponent doesn't want to attack you, there is no need for defence.

[BoarSpear]

bitter old man keeps repeating the same shit over and over.

BITTER ...dude i havent been so AMUSED in ages!!

Im still waiting on the explanation of the strategy empty...how did that come about as a viable way to fight?...you know lying on your back begging the guy to lay down with you? i can certainly see that STARTING some fights but it seems pretty useless for WINNING them

[EmptyneSs]

what i think is funny is that u shouldnt get upset when people bash tma's boarspear, in fact using your logic u should support them. all those people who saw some weak 12 year old kid with a blackbeklt at a tma mcdojo and assumed that the entire art was weak fallow the same logic as u have. they watched some kid throw some weak kicks at the mcdojo or saw them doing only forms all day and based his entire opinion of the art on that one thing. this is exactly what u are doing.

i agree the gracies didnt invent anything new, they just trained in judo and jiu jitsu. what they did do was bring the importance of grappling arts to the forefront of martial arts. and judo and jiu jitsu happen to be really awesome arts for self defense. to me its not gjj, or bjj , to me its all just jiu jitsu.

and i didnt watch the fight cause it was 140 mb, but i wouldnt doubt that royler was desperate. sak is one of the best grapplers in the world. he is awesome and yeah he has beaten other gracies.

[EmptyneSs]

BITTER ...dude i havent been so AMUSED in ages!!

Im still waiting on the explanation of the strategy empty...how did that come about as a viable way to fight?...you know lying on your back begging the guy to lay down with you? i can certainly see that STARTING some fights but it seems pretty useless for WINNING them

ive seen vitor belfort do that before. its trying to dare the opponent to come and grapple with them, and trying to stay away from getting pounded in stand up. its a dick move. some pure bjj guy did this to crocop too in a fight, and he actually ended up armbarring crocop at the end of the match. the bjj guy was getting pounded by crocops standup, so he started laying on his back and daring crocop to come grapple. crocop kept refusing, making the referee eventually stand the bjj guy up again. crocop had the match won until he suddenly got armbarred and tapped out. crocop looked like he was gonna cry at the end. ive seen this this done before, its a dick move. i think its boring and lame, but that doesnt mean every bjj or judo guy will do the same. however i will say, there are alot of bjj sweeps from that position, but he wasnt gonna get sak with that, sak is too good.

[gabbah]

EmptyneSs the match you are reffering to is Noguera vs Crocop... yeah poor crocop wanted to cry because he messed up at the end, he was totally pwning Nog up until that last minute.

[SamuraiGuy]

BITTER ...dude i havent been so AMUSED in ages!!

Im still waiting on the explanation of the strategy empty...how did that come about as a viable way to fight?...you know lying on your back begging the guy to lay down with you? i can certainly see that STARTING some fights but it seems pretty useless for WINNING them

The strategy is the ancient art of the CRAB PEOPLE, CRAB PEOPLE, CRAB PEOPLE!!!

(Some of you may get that, some of you may not, either way you'll prolly still think im crazy)

And as for the Nog CroCop fight, Nog isnt some pure BJJ guy who just happened to get an armbar on Cro Cop....

Cro Cop was smacking him around, thats true, but Nog is the second best heavyweight in the world, short of Fedor this guy has beaten everybody, and I'm sure it took a little more than BJJ to do that.

Nevermind his head is hard is a rock, the man can box too... and if you think it was a lucky armbar Nog pulled out on Cro Cop, watch Nog fight Bob Sapp... after being pile driven, (twice) and smashed about the ring.. what do you know armbar in the second round...



CRAB PEOPLE CRAB PEOPLE CRAB PEOPLE

[cam427]

Guys,

You dont need to get so upset at Boarspear's comments. The tactics used by Royler were desperate at best.

What the Royler vs Sak fight showed was not that BJJ was useless but that there is someone better than Royler at fighting.

When someone is losing that badly (I think it was a mismatch) they try all sorts of desperate things so if someone says that the fight was not a shining example of BJJ then you should just accept it.

The result of this fight does not reflect on BJJ at all. BJJ speaks for itself. Remember how the TMA "masters" looked back in the early UFC before they got sick of losing and stopped entering competitions.

Cam

[OmaPlata]

I find it quite arrogant to assume that all grappling comes from BJJ.

No, just the best.......and before you open your mouth, the ADCC proves it, though someone like Jeff Monson and guys like him arent BJJ guys at all.

[sapatiero]

BJJ is my life, but I can still see that crab jj is pretty boring. In todays game us BJJ guys need to develop our standup/takedown game to be rounded enough for MMA. Having said that, many practicioners like myself are content with sport BJJ and a little self defense.

On the Pride V. UFC debate, I prefer the Pride matches ´cause they´re generally more technical & there are less ´sluggers´. Unfortunately, there´s still gonna be the odd boring match - perhaps they should penalise butt scooting & stalling more?

[OmaPlata]

Guys Boarspear loves to bash the GRacies because they have totally dominated MMA for so long and who can even count the number of street fights guys whoo have trained in BJJ have won, I can count 30 at least that I know of.
But every sport or person or dominant thing in the world needs a critic, so its good to look at the Gracies from an unbiased perspective, even though we know how badass a blackbelt is and Boar doesnt.
The link didnt load but I assume Royler was sitting down trying to get Sak to come into his guard and have a ground fight, a place where Royler would be dominant, instead of standing and getting knocked out.
Post the fight of Royle and Genko Sudo I think it is where Royler gets KNOCKED THE **** OUT and ask why does he do BJJ ? lol

[OmaPlata]

here it is http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos.asp?v_id=249

[Sagacious Lu]

- perhaps they should penalise butt scooting & stalling more?

I couldn't agree more. I haven't seen that fight but I've seen fighters lay down like that and I hate it. It's a cop-out, and absolutely an example of something that you would only see in a sport fight, and even then I think it's questionable at best. I think the refs. should be much quicker to stand them up when this happens, and I think they should be much quicker to penalize them for stalling. I realize that the fighters are athletes that are going to use what they feel to be the best strategy for them under the rules of the match, but I think the rules should be changed to eliminate this crap.

[danfaggella]

I completely agree, and this fight is a bad example of stalling in the scooting open gaurd. However, I don't want people to get the impression that due to this fight BJJ is a completely ineffective martial art with no real use out of a ring, that would be ignorant.