Is this considered an accomplishment?

[Big Kahuna]

I am fairly new to BJJ, but I always roll with more experienced people. In the past, I was tapped often, but now many of the ones who used to tap me, cannot. Having said that, for the most part, I cannot tap them either and I typically end up in their guard and I keep them there as best as I can.

I find that if I don't try to do anything stupid, I can last the entire round - 6 minutes w/out getting tapped. On some occassions, I can tap them, but for the most part, I just try to keep them from tapping me.

Is this a step in the right direction? The reason I ask is that I feel like a slug just trying to keep them from tapping me and not trying to gain the advantage.

Comments are appreciated.

[cam427]

Dude,

This is not good. It does not matter if you tap 100 times for every time that you tap someone else. The important thing is to learn as much as possible as quickly as possible.

When you are sitting doing nothing you are learning nothing and even worse you are preventing your partner from learning.

Every time you do that you waste 6 minutes of yours and your partners training time. Try everything, you will learn how to get out of bad positions, how to defend submissions and eventually how to get good positions and submissions.

If you did this to me I would say something to you. I am surprised no one has done this already.

Cam

[Big Kahuna]

Okay, but these people are much better than me, so stopping them from submitting me isnt' good or an achievement? When rolling with a more skilled individual, I just dont sit there... If they try the arm-bar, I try to stop it; if they try to pass, I try to stop it; if they try the ama-plata, I try to stop it. I am not idle... I am just in a, more, defensive position. I have heard them say, to other people, "you need to work more technique when...", but never to me. Why? Maybe it's because I am actively defending and I do try some techniques here and there, but their skill prevents this. When I roll with people near my skill level, that's when I am aggressive and roll to actively tap someone.

I don't see how letting a more proficient person - having at least 1 yr of training over me - submit me is of any benefit to them or myself. I think they benefit from me keeping them from working a certain technique. If I defend against it, isnt' that creating a learning-point for them and myself?

[aseepish]

I say call it an accomplishment and move on.

Maybe you should change your goals when you spar those more advanced than you. Instead of being defensive, focus on improving position. Instead of stalemating them in your guard, try to get that sweep in. If you fail and the other guy passes, great! Focus on the escape. If he taps you, no problem, restart and try the sweep again.

BJJ is NOT a defensive art. The person who is attacking has the advantage.

Edit: Sorry, I misread your post. I originally thought you were holding someone in your guard for the full round. My advice still stands though.

[JaredExtreme]

This is kind of a phase in BJJ. There's one guy in dojo like this. Initially I would tap him out frequently, but now he has gotten better at defending and just hunkers down and I have to work a bit harder.

I think this is a necessary phase of BJJ learning that we all go through. Essentially you have learned how to defend against most of the common attacks from the guard. That in and of itself is a good thing. However, now that you have learned not to get tapped from the guard, you shouldn't just sit there in a wide base, you should move on to the next step: passing the guard!

You've learned how to avoid the guard attacks, now the next step is to learn how to avoid these techniques WHILE you're actively trying to pass. Yes this opens you up from more attacks from the bottom, but it's the next big step.

[cam427]

Like aseepish I thought you were stalling from your description. If you are actively defending (and trying to attack when possible) and are getting tapped less then it is an achievement.

Just dont get stuck trying not to tap. Try and go for everything so you keep learning.

Cam

[Big Kahuna]

I am sorry for the lack of info in my initial post... No, I was not a lump-on-the-log, but actively defending my position. Last night while training, I started to actively pass the guard against the very same people... Got thrown in a knee-bar once, but held my own against them and even managed a few, half-ass, guilotines.

I guess I need to realize that being submitted is part of the learning process. Thanks for all the feedback.

[Big Kahuna]

Average grapplers will fight not to lose. Good ones fight to win.

Nicely said! I'll make sure that I increase my offense...

[Nemesis]

Always fight to win / better position. You will learn so much more from your mistakes than from stalling. I train against guys that are better than me also and can stall me tapping but how cares. It is training. You have to be humble to learn. Guys do moves on me and I just ask, "What did you do? or What did I do wrong?"

[shamster]

I am kind of in the same boat. Almost everyone in my class is either more advanced than me, or bigger and stronger, or both.

I am getting better in "hanging" with the better guys. I still get tapped of course, but at least now I'm making it harder for them, and with some of the bigger guys at my skill level, I can often avoid getting tapped and put them on the defensive as well.

For me personally, defending attacks and not getting tapped was (and still is) a big hurdle. Only now am I trying to work more on being on the offensive and improving positions. One problem for me though is because of my weight, I often end up in the guard, so I don't get much of a chance to work on positions such as side control, knee on belly, and the mount.

[Memnoch1207]

If you have moved out of the realm of being completely OWNED all the time, then yes, it is an accomplishment.

[sapatiero]

It IS an accomplishment, and you´ve taken a big step forward in improving your defense by the sound of it. I´m assuming that if you´re being defensive, then that means the other person is gaining the better position. So if you´re now happy with your defense, it´s time to analyse how your partner is gaining that position and see if you can avoid getting there in the first place.

For example, if you´re finding yourself under sidemount a lot, then is your closed guard being passed, (if no) is your guard being opened and your open guard being passed? If you can now work on these, then you´ll not end up in a defensive position.

In your case, it sounds like your defending from inside the guard a lot - so why not pull guard first & work from there, or adopt a ´one knee high´ position to make it more difficult for the other guy to pull guard on you.

If you´re surrounded by higher belts, it´s gonna be a bit disheartening (bongo lessons - that´s excellent!), but if you analyse your game you can focus on improving. Just my ten pence worth

[TechniqueFreak]

You'd better believe it's an accomplishment!

Sounds like you're on the right track. Defense against submissions is important at all the belt levels. But first, can you break a fall without getting hurt? Practice falling by yourself forward, backward, and to the side until it becomes second nature. Then, when you roll, concentrate on not getting caught in submission holds, as you've been doing.
The basic rule of good defense is to deny your opp. what they want, right when they first start their attack. My favorite no-brainer arm position that works from all the bad positions (bottom of half-guard, turtle, side control, knee-on-belly, mount, back mount, etc.) is both elbows close to your body with both hands close to your neck/collars.
After you realize that the opp. cannot successfully attack as long as you maintain this arm position, start working on fighting your legs and feet into good position. Yes, all these positions are bad, but you must know how to make the best of them while you're there.
Next, work on mastering at least three escapes from each bad position. The last thing to concern yourself w/ is learning offense. Everyone always obsesses about learning all these fancy collar chokes and showy arm bars. I don't care how many of these you know--if your defense sucks, then so does your jiu-jitsu. I know my limitations. Hell, I can't even do a good arm bar. But I do have great defense, as most purple belts can't tap me, and I'm still a white belt. I tap guys out all the time, because they're over-aggressive and stubbornly keep attacking even as I'm nearing the kill. Keep up the good work.

[OmaPlata]

I am fairly new to BJJ, but I always roll with more experienced people. In the past, I was tapped often, but now many of the ones who used to tap me, cannot. Having said that, for the most part, I cannot tap them either and I typically end up in their guard and I keep them there as best as I can.

I find that if I don't try to do anything stupid, I can last the entire round - 6 minutes w/out getting tapped. On some occassions, I can tap them, but for the most part, I just try to keep them from tapping me.

Is this a step in the right direction? The reason I ask is that I feel like a slug just trying to keep them from tapping me and not trying to gain the advantage.

Comments are appreciated.

Yes its a great step. Nothing wrong with working on your defensive part of your game. But you have to step it up now. Most instructors emphasize attacking the opponent, going for moves and being aggressive.
I always go for moves and positions even at the risk of getting tapped or giving up a position. you have to try to improve and attacking will keep your opponent on his defensive and open up things for you to attack

[Tom Yum]

Everyone always obsesses about learning all these fancy collar chokes and showy arm bars. I don't care how many of these you know--if your defense sucks, then so does your jiu-jitsu. I know my limitations. Hell, I can't even do a good arm bar. But I do have great defense, as most purple belts can't tap me, and I'm still a white belt. I tap guys out all the time, because they're over-aggressive and stubbornly keep attacking even as I'm nearing the kill. Keep up the good work.

You're a white belt and most purple belts can't tap you? Strange, dude.